Camber adjuster eccentrics vs ball joint preload

[blubuckaroo]

I previously had an alignment correct the passenger side camber with an eccentric sleeve. Now years later, that ball joint is showing looseness.
I plan to replace the ball joints, but studying these adjuster, I can't understand how they can have proper ball joint pre-load, and have the eccentric adjusted at precisely the right angle at the same time.
I'm suspicious that's why my ball joint failed. I'm thinking the sleeve was adjusted to correct my camber issue without regard to proper pre-load.
Could someone explain to me how these adjusters could be used correctly?

 

[DirtDonk]

Well, it is a bit of a variation on the original theme. But even the non-adjustable, or non-offset adjusting sleeves, don’t work like they used to.
I don’t know if it’s the sleeve, or more likely the ball joints that aren’t made the same way, but they don’t adjust like they used to. You still go through the factory adjustment procedure but because absolute precision doesn’t exist and isn’t necessary, you simply adjust it to the standard book method, and to get your camber adjustment you just turn the sleeve slightly, one way or the other to get it.
That slight movement will not greatly affect your ball joint tension.
What I found the biggest problem today is that you can’t reach the rated torque before the sleeve simply screws out the bottom of the yoke!
So my advice is to adjust it down to the rated torque, but if the sleeve starts to protrude down out of the bottom, stop when it has one or two full threads showing through the bottom of the yoke.
Set your camber the way you want it and then torque the nuts.
Once the nuts are torqued you’re going to check your ball joint preload anyway.
Per factory specifications.

If the final setting doesn’t net you the proper preload, you can loosen or tighten the adjusting sleeve slightly to see if you can get there from here.
Again, setting the camber however you need it.

In other words, precision instruments, these ain’t.

 

[blubuckaroo]

Well, it is a bit of a variation on the original theme. But even the non-adjustable, or non-offset adjusting sleeves, don’t work like they used to.
I don’t know if it’s the sleeve, or more likely the ball joints that aren’t made the same way, but they don’t adjust like they used to. You still go through the factory adjustment procedure but because absolute precision doesn’t exist and isn’t necessary, you simply adjust it to the standard book method, and to get your camber adjustment you just turn the sleeve slightly, one way or the other to get it.
That slight movement will not greatly affect your ball joint tension.
What I found the biggest problem today is that you can’t reach the rated torque before the sleeve simply screws out the bottom of the yoke!
So my advice is to adjust it down to the rated torque, but if the sleeve starts to protrude down out of the bottom, stop when it has one or two full threads showing through the bottom of the yoke.
Set your camber the way you want it and then torque the nuts.
Once the nuts are torqued you’re going to check your ball joint preload anyway.
Per factory specifications.

If the final setting doesn’t net you the proper preload, you can loosen or tighten the adjusting sleeve slightly to see if you can get there from here.
Again, setting the camber however you need it.

In other words, precision instruments, these ain’t.

Thanks Paul.
I really think this thing ruined my ball joint.
In this case then, wouldn't camber shims under the spindle be the better approach?

 

[reamer]

That why i'm making camber shims that fit behind the spindle ......Id show ya a photo, but.....

 

[OX1]

That why i'm making camber shims that fit behind the spindle ......Id show ya a photo, but.....

Don't they already make em (kinda pricey, IMO).

Spindle to Knuckle Camber Shim for Dana 30/44 Axles on Scout, Pickup, GM, Ford & More

Check out the deal on Spindle to Knuckle Camber Shim for Dana 30/44 Axles on Scout, Pickup, GM, Ford & More at IH Parts America

www.ihpartsamerica.com

Ingles instructions.............

Ingalls 26125 - Manual

User guide • Read online or download PDF • Original mode • Ingalls 26125 User Manual • Ingalls For the car

www.manualsdir.com

Looks like you can't buy the Ingal's one's any more, of course

Ingalls Engineering 26125

Free Shipping - Ingalls Engineering 26125 with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Wheel Alignment Parts at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[reamer]

Says "not available"?????

 

[blubuckaroo]

Thanks, I'll get it up on blocks and get it apart. Ill have to replace the damaged ball joint, then use my angle finder to find out which shim I'll need.

 

[toddz69]

I have a set of the Ingalls shims on my truck. If someone would put those back into production, I think they'd sell a fair number of them.

Regarding the eccentric sleeves, I discovered that problem with them years ago and discussed it with the director of engineering of the company that makes them (who happens to be a member here and an EB owner). He admitted that they were an old legacy product and one of their shortcomings was that issue with their eccentricity maybe not matching up with the point where things are torqued correctly. Since they are machined in varying configurations, he suggested that I buy several of the degree size I needed and trying to find one that matched. Not a very economical thing to do but that's what I did - and sold the ones I didn't use here as I recall.

The one thing with the shims that I thought might be a problem is that since they're tapered, you're no longer getting 100% contact with the nut mating surface and the spindle. In my experience thus far, that hasn't proved to be a problem.

Todd Z.

 

[reamer]

I think the taper is so slight, the nut "conforms" quite well...

 

[toddz69]

I think the taper is so slight, the nut "conforms" quite well...

I think you're probably right.

Todd Z.

 

[nvrstuk]

D44 & D60 camber shim manufacturing I think stopped many moons ago. I needed a lot of correction on the DS spindle on my D60 and called all around the country. I was lucky enough that I talked to one of the guys that worked at the plant that made the shims originally and he had a few hanging on pegboard hooks as a " nostalgia" display at his desk.

He sold them to me.

I also hit up some old skool alignment shops in a neighboring town and found a couple more. I was lucky. I mean I spend at least 5 hours calling every place imagineable but at least my tire isn't going to wear out prematurely now.

This is why I'm asking reamer how he made them, type of material etc. He could be helping us all out soon!

 

[jamesroney]

D44 & D60 camber shim manufacturing I think stopped many moons ago. I needed a lot of correction on the DS spindle on my D60 and called all around the country. I was lucky enough that I talked to one of the guys that worked at the plant that made the shims originally and he had a few hanging on pegboard hooks as a " nostalgia" display at his desk.

He sold them to me.

I also hit up some old skool alignment shops in a neighboring town and found a couple more. I was lucky. I mean I spend at least 5 hours calling every place imagineable but at least my tire isn't going to wear out prematurely now.

This is why I'm asking reamer how he made them, type of material etc. He could be helping us all out soon!

I guess that I am blessed. I just face mill my knuckles in the Bridgeport and the problem is solved. Don't want to go more than a degree, because the metal gets thin. KP60 Knuckles are thicker in that location. As long as you know how much you need, it doesn't take long.

Of course if the camber is out more than about a degree negative, then it's because the tube is bent. (It certainly didn't leave the factory that way.) I've seen a lot of guys try to fix a bent housing with a camber shim. It drives me crazy.

I've got a couple of camber shims in the shop that I have harvested from other axles. I have the bigger 5 bolt spindle, and the 6 bolt spindle. I should probably throw them away before I'm tempted to put them in a Bronco.

It's an awful lot of noise and complaining trying to fix a "wear angle" on a tire. Nobody is out there road racing a front live axle Bronco. So who cares if your camber is out a little?

 

[nvrstuk]

When a $900 tire wears out on the outside of the tread and the inside still has 3/4 of it's tread left and toe in alignment specs are spot on then it's worth fixing.

This fix was on the short side of the axle tube and part of it could have been caused when the axle was narrowed. I will never know for sure but it's a slim possibility because the fit of pressing the inner C on the axle tube was tight- no slop. Positive camber is what I had

My best friend owned a 4 bay auto repair shop in town (largest in the valley) and since our town was a logging support community for decades, 4x4 pickups were more common that any other other vehicle. He assured me that most of the straight axle trucks came with incorrect camber from the factory. He ran the frt end rack at his shop.

Since mine is KP I do have plenty of meat but since I lack a Bridgeport I resorted to what the rest of us peons have to use.... shims.

 

[OX1]

Says "not available"?????

Yes, for the Ingals, but the other were/are. Of course those are for either 6 bolt or 8 bolt spindles.
Seems even the Moog one's that were avail in 2019ish, are also gone.

You planning on building/selling these?

 

[OX1]

I think the taper is so slight, the nut "conforms" quite well...

I have a set on my 79 (got a million years ago through JC Whit, IIRC), with 35's, front locker and plowing with it for 20 odd years.
Never had an issue. Don't think I need them on my 70, but also have not put it on the alignment rack.

 

[gnpenning]

More than a few early square bodies with D44 came from the factory with camber issues, don't know about EB.

The shims used to be cheap and easy to find and as I recall available in multiple colors depicting degree range. Lack of requests changed that. Maybe they could be 3D printed???

 

[reamer]

Would you trust a plastic shim, sandwiched with extreme pressure on your front end?

 

[gnpenning]

My square body and EB both have been fine for well over 30 years, along with many more.

The metal one looks good as well. I'm sure you will find a market for them. Just wanted to give a possible option

 

[reamer]

good point

 

[nvrstuk]

More than a few early square bodies with D44 came from the factory with camber issues, don't know about EB.

The shims used to be cheap and easy to find and as I recall available in multiple colors depicting degree range. Lack of requests changed that. Maybe they could be 3D printed???

I had a friend who was going to 3D print them a few years back and he couldn't get it. I didn't pursue it any farther because I found the degree shim I needed but why couldn't someone with the correct "Digitizer" type program be able to just pop these out??