Dana 44 lock in/out hubs for disk conversion

[Timmy390]

I'm in the middle of converting to front disk brakes. I bought the parts years ago and never put them on. To tell the truth, the power drums were doing just fine but I upgraded gears so I figured while it was disassembled, why not add the disks.

I got "the knuckles out" (off a 79 bronco) from a supplier that I'm sure some of you have used before but it was so long ago (it's been years) I will keep them nameless as I'm sure it was an honest mistake but they sent me the wrong hubs. I got the right caps but everything else is wrong. The inner grive gears and such all appear to be from the early Bronco. I wouldn't expect the supplier to "make it right" years later so not even asking.

So I need the correct hubs and was wondering what everyone else was running? I was considering "Mile Marker Stainless Supreme Hubs Dana 44" for $70. How are the MM's when compaired with the Warn Standard and Prem?

Opinions please......are the orignal ones available?

Tim

 

[thegreatjustino]

All Dana 44 locking hubs will work. You can re-use your stock EB locking hubs on either the Chevy or Ford disc conversion.

What issue are you having? Have you tried installing them yet, or are you just concerned that they look incorrect?

 

[Timmy390]

The first indication something was wrong, the screws that hold the outer caps on are too short and they're the wrong diameter. They will not fit into the caps.

Let me back up. I have 6 screws that are correct and 6 that are not correct. The 6 that's aren't correct are too short and have too big a diameter to fit the caps.

Origional hubs I have off my 74, with the cap assembled, there are two slots for the "cam" to fit into.

The caps from the 79 have three slots thus the cam will not fit into the cap.

If I remove the cam, it all fits together but the sleeve & bushing/sleeve and ring assembly don't set close enough to be "pushed in" when you turn the cap knob.

My shop manual shows the 73/74 Bronco and the 79 Bronco as being the same but the parts I have will not fit together. i can see no way the "cam" from the 73/74 will work with the 79 I have unless I have caps off another application meaning it's not off a 79 Bronco.

The replacement hubs I see online don't show using the "cam".

Yes, I tried installing the 79 bubs on my 74 and had the same issue with the "cam". I figured it was just a difference in the 74 and the 79 so didn't think anymore about it till now.

I'm kind of in a box here. My old hub knobs are in bad shape and the "O" rings are shot. the hubs I got in the kit are in better shape but I can't figure out how to make them work. I've had these hubs apart many times over the 16 years I'mve own the Bronco and even have pictures in the shop manual as to "how" it's supposed to go together and the new ones do not work.

Something is amiss. It's as if I have "external type" caps and "intrnal type" parts. I reference this from page 177 of my Haynes manual. It shows there are more than one type of Hub from 73-79.

Tim

 

[bmc69]

I reference this from page 177 of my Haynes manual. It shows there are more than one type of Hub from 73-79.

Tim

But that is incorrect. 44 hubs from all years fit all 44s, only some oddball early F-250 44s excepting. Believe me..I've owned every example ever built and have most every type still sitting around here somewhere.

 

[bmc69]

All Dana 44 locking hubs will work. You can re-use your stock EB locking hubs on either the Chevy or Ford disc conversion.?

That.

 

[Timmy390]

Something is amiss, maybe I'm just not smart enough to put the puzzle together. Here are some photoes of what I have.

Photo is of the two caps side by side. Left is the original and right is the new/79 Bronco

Photo of new/79 Bronco cap inside

Photo of new/79 Bronco cap outside

Photo is of actuating cam body and outer clutch retaining ring

If I line up the clutch retaining ring with the cap so the screws holes will line up, the cam body will not fit into the cap. If I line the cam up so it fits the cap, the reatining ring will not line up with the cap screw holes.

Note photo 2 shoes the "3" silver prongs inside the cap. If there were 2, it would.

Tim

 

[thegreatjustino]

Are you trying to use the '79 caps with the '74 internal parts? If so, that's your problem right there. While all Dana 44 locking hubs will work, you need to use the complete locking hub assembly from whatever year you choose. You can't co-mingle the parts.

You need to use the complete '79 locking hub assembly as shown below or the complete '74 assembly.

 

[Timmy390]

Pictures are worth 1K words.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say all along. I was sent the wrong hubs. I don't seem to have the correct internals for the 79 hubs.

It appears from your pic's I WAS sent 79 caps and 74 internals with my kit. Now it makes sence as to why it will not work.

So I have a full set of 74 internal and external(I just removed) and a set of 79 exteranals with 74 internals ( that I was snet).

Good to know the complete 74 set I removed will work with the conversion. I'll see what's the cheapest way to go, get a repair kit and now knobs for the 74 set of get a new set 74 or 79's.

Thanks to clearing this up guys.

Tim

 

[thegreatjustino]

OK, got it. Yes, you were sent mismatched parts. I've got a box full of miscellaneous hub parts. If you want the '79 internal pieces, I can look to see if I have them.

 

[DirtDonk]

Your early lockouts were from Dana/Spicer, while your "'79" hubs are the later Warn type.
Warn became the supplier at some point in there, but yours is literally the first time I've ever seen them on as early as a '79 truck. So either they were retrofitted by a PO of the front axle before you got it shipped to you, or you have the earliest known version after Warn became the supplier of record for Ford.

Since it was not long after that the Warns became commonplace from the factory, I'd say it could go either way.
But supplier error or not, didn't they send you the whole locking hub assembly that you could use? Or are you saying that after you took it all apart you might have misplaced the parts?

Either way though, you're going to have to either match up all the parts you have to create hubs from either vintage, or, like you were thinking, just get some new ones.
If Warn has not changed out their design since then, you should be able to purchase the screws only, or a kit with some extra gaskets and stuff with no problem.
We even have one of the renewal kits in stock in fact. Seems to me it's something like 15 bucks and comes with enough screws to do two hubs.

Of course, if you're missing other parts to make either style complete, it's new hub time at the Timmy390 corral! ;D

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

So Justino. Is that picture you posted for sure from a '79 that you had? Or was it just of a later hub from a non-specific year?
All the Ford I ever personally worked on or looked at up to '79 all still used the earlier Spicer style hubs. Like I said before, I didn't start seeing the Warn style until later.

Thanks

Paul

 

[Timmy390]

OK, got it. Yes, you were sent mismatched parts. I've got a box full of miscellaneous hub parts. If you want the '79 internal pieces, I can look to see if I have them.

TKS for the offer but with everything I need, I'm leaning towards getting the Mile Marker hubs and being done with it. I'll let you know if I decide to try and piece mill things together.

So Justino. Is that picture you posted for sure from a '79 that you had? Or was it just of a later hub from a non-specific year?
All the Ford I ever personally worked on or looked at up to '79 all still used the earlier Spicer style hubs. Like I said before, I didn't start seeing the Warn style until later.

Thanks

Paul

The pictures are of what I was shipped with the knuckles out and it's supposed to be from a 79 Bronco.

Could be off anything........ as it appears I got mis matched parts. This is the trouble you get into when you buy things and don't put them on for years. It's been 6 or 7 years since I bought all the parts.

Tim

 

[DirtDonk]

Don't remember if it was asked already, but don't you have all the parts for the '73 still?
That cam and actuator and the older red cap are compatible. You just have to have the other parts too. Still need the inner cog and the main spring.

Which, by the way, do not get reused with the later style lockout.
But if you've got enough parts to make the early style, by all means use it. It's a better design in the first place.
Stronger and more reliable if you keep it maintained. Which most don't.

Paul

 

[Timmy390]

Don't remember if it was asked already, but don't you have all the parts for the '73 still?
That cam and actuator and the older red cap are compatible. You just have to have the other parts too. Still need the inner cog and the main spring.

Which, by the way, do not get reused with the later style lockout.
But if you've got enough parts to make the early style, by all means use it. It's a better design in the first place.
Stronger and more reliable if you keep it maintained. Which most don't.

Paul

I do have a full set from my 74 that I just removed. Only issue is, they need new red caps "actuatures" ($12 each) which I can find. However, I can't find the cap O-rings (not the actuator O-rings the cap O-rings) which are broken, hard and in pieces.

I see repair kits have the cap O-rings in them but none of the repair kits are for Warn style hubs and not the Dana Spicer style hubs. I already checked the O-rings on the "79" Warn caps I have and they will not work on the Dana Spicer caps. Wrong thickness, size and shape (round not flat).

I will use the 74 hubs I have if I can find the cap O-rings for them. Any suggestions on where to find them?

Tim

 

[shamu]

Here is a complete hub assembly.

 

[DirtDonk]

You know, that o-ring thing has come up before. I think we should make a concerted effort to get some part numbers of generic seals.

In the meantime, don't let that missing seal keep you from running the hubs. It's almost literally the last thing installed, and can easily and quickly be added after the fact by just removing the six cap screws and setting one in there.
Frankly, the replacements from Ford were not all that great fitting anyway, so maybe one that's got some more meat to it will fill the void better.

If you have to drive it extensively with no seal, the cap will be a bit loose but not fall out. And you can do what I did when I got the too-thin seals many years ago. Just add silicone!
I used sealant around the mating surface between the hub and lockout cap. Worked great between bearing and hub services, and kept a lot of crap out of there that would have likely entered even with the seals.

Between a siliconed cap, a spindle stuffed with grease, and a rear hub/bearing seal in good condition, you can keep the outside world at bay for a long time.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Forgot to mention. If you're just not comfortable installing the cap without the seal, just leave it off altogether.
In a situation like that, duct tape is your friend!

I've even temporarily once used a sandwich baggie and rubber band to keep dirt out while I waited for parts.
Worked like a charm.

Paul

 

[Timmy390]

DirtDork,

Get out of my head...LOL

You read my mind. I decided not to spend $70-100 bucks on new hubs because of a stuipd seal. I still have the old seals their just broken and all together junk but I can still use them as the "spacer" between cap and hub and add silicone to seal the area.

I did some searching on the web and found a picture of a spicer hub repair kit which included new screws, copper washers and cap seals but a picture is all I've found so far.

I can find "rubber" o-rings the same size but the originals were flat and not rubber.

Tim

 

[KyleQ]

Just put RTV on the cap side and tighten it down, wipe of the extra sealant and enjoy a 100% water free hub. I usually dab some on the allen bolts before installing too.

 

[DirtDonk]

...I can find "rubber" o-rings the same size but the originals were flat and not rubber.

Maybe not rubber, but certainly round. They only get flat after sitting in there all squeezed down for decades between servicing! ;D

Ok, so that's just a guess from my own experiences. I can't say for certain that the originals were not flat, but every one I've ever seen or bought after the fact was round right out of the box.
Just like a normal o-ring.

And, when it comes right down to it, whatever seals water out and stays in place should be ok to use.

Paul