disc brake swap ball joint question

[stinger40]

1972 Bronco project. Got started on it over 20 years ago then life got in the way. Back on it now, picking up where I left off- in the middle of a disc brake conversion using Ford knuckles from sometime in the '70s.

I have new Moog ball joints, K8194T and K8195T which have splines all around them where they press into the knuckle. Pressed out my old ball joints yesterday and they are smooth, no splines. Did I get the wrong new ball joints, or do the replacements have splines when the originals did not?

thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[DirtDonk]

Hey stinger, welcome to classicbroncos!
No, they're not "wrong" but some people consider them the wrong one because they don't like how the splines dig into the metal. Which of course is their purpose.

I think the "T" is the designation, because K8194 and K8195 are the correct original part numbers for all of the Dana 44's of that vintage. Whether in a GM, a Ford or a Dodge.
Does it by any chance say "Problem Solver" anywhere on the box?

So they will work, but you can still get the smooth body ones. That is what I recommend if you can find them. I don't have any personal experience with the T model, but I do believe that I have read here on the forums where some don't like them.
If you're not in a hurry then hopefully someone that has been there, done that will chime in and clear this up.

Paul

 

[Broncobowsher]

The "problem solver" are often a "problem maker". If you have a good axle use regular ball joints. When you have a questionable axle, where the ball joints are a little loose in the press fit, the problem solver fills the bill. The issue with the problem solver when you don't need them, you will never be able to use a regular ball joint in the axle again. The last ditch ball joint option turns into the last ever ball joint option. They will work.

 

[1badd73]

I just installed the same exact ball jpoint in my 73 ford knuckles. No issues just make sure you orientate the zerk fittings on the upper ball joints correctly.

 

[DirtDonk]

And another issue to watch for is the final adjustments on the collar/sleeve/thingy.
You do want to run it to 40lbs with the spanner socket, if you can. But keep an eye on it underneath the yoke and if the sleeve just keeps extending downward out of it's pocket and you have not reached your torque goal yet, I say forget reaching 40lbs and back it off so that no more than 1/4" or less of thread is sticking out proud of the yoke.
I never saw an original one do this, but I have yet to see one in the last five years that did not do this. The last three I installed would never reach 40lbs of torque before literally screwing all the way out the bottom!

It's a modern problem apparently, unless others with more experience can remember running into it.
So run it to 30lbs and check the thread engagement. If it's already starting to stick out and you can't get it to 35lbs, leave it and do the final torques on the nuts, then check the rotational force required to move the knuckle.

You have the specifications for adjustment and checking?

Paul

 

[stinger40]

The "problem solver" are often a "problem maker". If you have a good axle use regular ball joints. When you have a questionable axle, where the ball joints are a little loose in the press fit, the problem solver fills the bill. The issue with the problem solver when you don't need them, you will never be able to use a regular ball joint in the axle again. The last ditch ball joint option turns into the last ever ball joint option. They will work.

The old ones were really tight when pressing them out, so no need for splines to fix a loose condition. I am going to return the splined ones for smooth ones.

Rock Auto has 2 choices for smooth ones that are not "economy": Dana 706116X which don't have provisions for greasing it appears, or AC Delco 45D2156/45D0070 which can be greased although not sure if the upper zerk can be left in place or will interfere with the u-joint. Leaning towards getting the AC Delco set unless someone tells me the Dana set is superior.

 

[stinger40]

And another issue to watch for is the final adjustments on the collar/sleeve/thingy.
You do want to run it to 40lbs with the spanner socket, if you can. But keep an eye on it underneath the yoke and if the sleeve just keeps extending downward out of it's pocket and you have not reached your torque goal yet, I say forget reaching 40lbs and back it off so that no more than 1/4" or less of thread is sticking out proud of the yoke.
I never saw an original one do this, but I have yet to see one in the last five years that did not do this. The last three I installed would never reach 40lbs of torque before literally screwing all the way out the bottom!

It's a modern problem apparently, unless others with more experience can remember running into it.
So run it to 30lbs and check the thread engagement. If it's already starting to stick out and you can't get it to 35lbs, leave it and do the final torques on the nuts, then check the rotational force required to move the knuckle.

You have the specifications for adjustment and checking?

Paul

I read that you tighten the lower to 80 ft-lbs or so, then the inner nut on the top up to 40 ft-lbs but while torquing monitor the knuckle turning force which should not exceed 26 pounds- stop torquing the nut if it gets to 26 pounds. Then torque top main nut down. Sound about right?

 

[1badd73]

Good info

https://www.pirate4x4.com/d1/tech/billavista/PDFs/Chevy Balljoints.pdf

 

[toddz69]

AC Delco 45D2156/45D0070 which can be greased although not sure if the upper zerk can be left in place or will interfere with the u-joint. Leaning towards getting the AC Delco set unless someone tells me the Dana set is superior.

The AC Delco 'blue boots' are very good quality and I highly recommend them. They are the preferred joint in the desert/off road racing community where front ends get pounded hard. They have also been sold under the Raybestos name in years past and are also what you'll get if you go to Napa and get their premium brand (hint - Rockauto prices are much cheaper than Napas!).

As to whether the AC Delco or Dana is superior, I think that's a never-ending argument that has been debated here numerous times.

Todd Z.

 

[stinger40]

Good info

https://www.pirate4x4.com/d1/tech/billavista/PDFs/Chevy Balljoints.pdf

thanks, that will come in handy

 

[stinger40]

The AC Delco 'blue boots' are very good quality and I highly recommend them. They are the preferred joint in the desert/off road racing community where front ends get pounded hard. They have also been sold under the Raybestos name in years past and are also what you'll get if you go to Napa and get their premium brand (hint - Rockauto prices are much cheaper than Napas!).

As to whether the AC Delco or Dana is superior, I think that's a never-ending argument that has been debated here numerous times.

Todd Z.

Sounds like either one will work fine for what I need. Went ahead and ordered the AC Delco parts.

 

[Pa PITT]

Stinger welcome aboard .This is an excellent sight for what you attempting on your Bronco
I'm glad to see you've stayed hooked on your Bronco for so many years.
...........
.... Check & see if you can get some New GOOD ZERTS .. People have been complaining that .... Todays Zerts are mostly made in CHINA & Won't grease your new ball Joints .
So I just had Ball Joint put in myDiesel Dodge haul truck . We replaced the Zerts that didn't work with some made by LINCOLN PRODUCTS . .. bUT AT LEAST THEY PUT GREASE FORWARD .
... I'D THINK DORMAN Should make some good ones also.
...............
.... Welcome & good luck.

 

[stinger40]

Stinger welcome aboard .This is an excellent sight for what you attempting on your Bronco
I'm glad to see you've stayed hooked on your Bronco for so many years.
...........
.... Check & see if you can get some New GOOD ZERTS .. People have been complaining that .... Todays Zerts are mostly made in CHINA & Won't grease your new ball Joints .
So I just had Ball Joint put in myDiesel Dodge haul truck . We replaced the Zerts that didn't work with some made by LINCOLN PRODUCTS . .. bUT AT LEAST THEY PUT GREASE FORWARD .
... I'D THINK DORMAN Should make some good ones also.
...............
.... Welcome & good luck.

Thanks for the tip on the grease fittings, I will swap them out. I think I have a small box of new US made ones from the '60s or '70s.

Looking forward to getting this project finished after all these years. Its been stored indoors so other that some mouse turds its pretty much exactly as I left it.

 

[73azbronco]

somethin in the 70's sound like fullsize bronco disk brakes.

 

[stinger40]

Sounds like either one will work fine for what I need. Went ahead and ordered the AC Delco parts.

The AC Delco parts showed up yesterday. The on line picture of the parts showed them having the smooth body, but they had the splines.

Returned them and picked up the Dana Spicer 706116X parts locally today. Pressed them in this afternoon.

 

[stinger40]

somethin in the 70's sound like fullsize bronco disk brakes.

Either that or F150, been 25 years I don't remember any more. Think I got them at a junk yard in Wyoming but not even sure of that.

 

[toddz69]

The AC Delco parts showed up yesterday. The on line picture of the parts showed them having the smooth body, but they had the splines.

Returned them and picked up the Dana Spicer 706116X parts locally today. Pressed them in this afternoon.

Yeah, the AC Delco ones have splines. I never thought of them as the 'problem solver' types. I'm not sure if I'm locked into using them forever now or not.

Todd Z.