Efi / 4r70w ecu?

[bax]

When you guys figure this out, tell me. I am looking at doing a 5.0 4r70w combo. it would be nice if you all found something that would work.

 

[Bronco_69]

When you guys figure this out, tell me. I am looking at doing a 5.0 4r70w combo. it would be nice if you all found something that would work.

LOL. thats how i feel. i am thinking about trying it out but some confirmed swaps would be nice

 

[Ranchtruck]

Any particular F150 to look for this computer in? Every F150 I've looked at has an E4OD. I have yet to see an F150 with a 4R70W.

F150 door tag trans code U = 4r70w

There were 2 of them in my small local junkyard, one a 4x4, the other a 2wd, so I know they exist.

 

[mattt]

Thanks! That saves bending over in the junkyard ground muck everytime to look at the pan.

 

[Ryan]

LOL. thats how i feel. i am thinking about trying it out but some confirmed swaps would be nice

There is the problem, I haven't see a successful swap using an Explorer computer. I do have customers who bought my EFI harnesses to fix a failed Explorer attempt and went back to popular 89-93 Mustang technology. 1989-93 Mustang technology can’t be beaten for ease of use and low cost.

I’ve identified these 4 ECM’s from F150 5.0L 4R70W
BUG2
GET0
HUG0
HUG2

 

[Bronco_69]

I’ve identified these 4 ECM’s from F150 5.0L 4R70W
BUG2
GET0
HUG0
HUG2

i love the mustang swaps but want a factory computer to control the 4r70w. do you know of any sucessfull swaps using one of those four computers?

 

[Broncobowsher]

Don't assume all Fords are the same as Crown Vics. I know Mustangs in the 90's had the PATS module inside the Dash cluster, and many other Fords are the same way. That stopped used car lots from swapping in low mileage odometers. Ford was using the old 2valve 4.6L in Crown Vics when the 3valve was in everything else.

I was just driving around in a 2011 crown vic (NYC taxi no less) and it sure looks like it is still the 2V motor. What a pig, embarassing that it is a V8 and drives like that.

 

[MattC]

Sounds like I'm being voted to "take one for the team".
So far it seems like I'm getting good info from the Explorer forum. Here's a quote about the PATs system:

________________________________________________________________

Everything you wanted to know about PATS.
Antitheft and Alarm Systems: Description and Operation
ANTI-THEFT
The passive anti-theft system (PATS) uses radio frequency identification technology
to deter a driveaway theft. Passive means that it does not require any activity from
the user.
The PATS uses a specially encoded ignition key. Each encoded ignition key contains a
permanently installed electronic device called a transponder. Each transponder
contains a unique electronic identification code, with over 72 million billion
combinations.
Each encoded ignition key must be programmed into the vehicle powertrain control
module (PCM) before it can be used to start the engine. There are special diagnostic
procedures that must be carried out if new encoded ignition keys are to be
configured.
The encoded key is larger than a traditional ignition key. The key does not require
batteries and should last the life of the vehicle.
The transceiver module communicates with the encoded ignition key. This module is
located behind the steering column shroud and contains an antenna connected to a
small electronic module. During each vehicle start sequence, the transceiver module
reads the encoded ignition key identification code and sends the data to the PCM.
The control functions are contained in the PCM. This module carries out all of the
PATS functions such as receiving the identification code from the encoded ignition
key and controlling engine enable. The PCM initiates the key interrogation sequence
when the vehicle ignition switch is turned to ON or START.
The PATS function uses the PCM to enable or disable the engine. All elements of PATS
must be functional before the engine is allowed to start. If any of the components
are not working correctly, the vehicle will not start.
PATS uses a visual theft indicator located on top of the instrument panel. This
indicator will prove out for three seconds when the ignition switch is turned to ON
or START under normal operation. If there is a PATS problem, this indicator will
either flash rapidly or glow steadily (for more than three seconds) when the ignition
switch is turned to ON or START. PATS also "flashes" the theft indicator every two
seconds at ignition OFF to act as a visual theft deterrent.
The PATS is not compatible with aftermarket remote start systems, which allow the
vehicle to be started from outside the vehicle. These systems may reduce the vehicle
security level, and also may cause no-start issues. Remote start systems must be
removed before investigation of PATS-related no-start issues.

The PATs key is used on the following Ford family trucks and suvs:

FORD: 1996-2001 MUSTANG, TAURUS
1998-2000 CONTOUR
1998-2001 CROWN VICTORIA
2000-2001 FOCUS
2002 THUNDERBIRD
1997-2001 EXPEDITION
1998-2002 EXPLORER
1999 F-250 LD
1999-2001 F-150, RANGER, WINDSTAR
2000-2001 EXCURSION
2001 ESCAPE
LINCOLN: 1997-1998 MARK VIII
1998-2001 CONTINENTAL, TOWN CAR
2000-2001 LS
1998-2001 NAVIGATOR
2002 BLACKWOOD
MERCURY: 1996-2001 SABLE
1998-2000 MYSTIQUE
1998-2001 GRAND MARQUIS
1999-2001 COUGAR
1998-2002 MOUNTAINEER

Additionally, PATs can be found on the follow Ford family cars and mini-vans:

1998-up Contour
1997-up Crown Victoria
1999-up Escort
2000-up Focus
1996-up Mustang and Taurus
1998-up Windstar
1998-up 2000-up Lincoln LS
1998-up Lincoln Mark VIII, Lincoln Continental and Lincoln Town Car
1997-up Mercury Grand Marquis
1998-up Mercury Mystique
1996-up Mercury Sable

________________________________________________________________
Does anyone have any warnings before I buy everything off this 97 Explorer?
So far from what I can tell I'm not really getting the cons. Yes I understand the Mustang/Optishift/RJM setup is proven and if I want I can add a Tweecer for further tuning if necessary. I am not a tech guy so the idea of any kind of programming intimidates me.

Pros and cons?

EEC-IV 5.0/4r70w
Pros:
Proven reliability
Ease of support here on CB

Cons:
Optishift required (sounds like a GREAT product but it's still $600)
EEC is getting hard to find (at least in my area. I've been to 8 yards no EEC)
TFI dist needed (sounds like the tfi is likly to go out. Guys keeping a spare )


1997 Explorer EEC-V 5.0/4r70w

Pros:
All parts available from one donor.
EEC controls efi / ign / trans
Coil pack ign (more tunability / reliability unknown)
Parts availability ( I have seen several Explorers in local yards)
Tuner can control engine and trans

Cons:
3? Extra sensors ( downstream oxy sensors and misfire sensor )
No one has done it yet
Don't know if RJM will make me a harness

All comments are appreciated.
I am still on the fence about which way to go

 

[HGM]

Been holding off responding since I'm still in progress and have no real experience with "making it work".. But, I have found a couple of things in my process. The '96 Explorer donor I used did not have PATS and the speed signal comes from the OSS rather than the differential. So, I will not need the ABS or tone wheel to provide speed signal for the trans or cluster, simply a conventional speed sensor and cable in the transfer case. The '98 had PATS and used the sensor in the diff. Not 100% on the '97, but I believe its the same.. Good luck!

 

[HGM]

BTW, on the con's you have listed.

The missfire sensor you mention, I suppose you mean the crank sensor, its on the donor engine and pre wired. Non issue.

The downstream o2's are in fact "extra", but really no issue once you get the cat in place.

No one has done it "yet" is true, the best I can tell. Except of course Ford. The thing that many forget is that if you dont re-engineer the system, and just transplant everything as designed, you'll have a system that performs as intended by the factory. It will be more reliable than the Mustang systems, simply because there are no special combinations or parts needed to make it work.

Ford makes the harness. I say use it.. Looks like allot of wires but you can eliminate many of them if you only want to run the engine and trans. The Explorer harness also adds plenty of though firewall terminals, relays and fuses.

As I said, mine isnt done and does in fact look busy, but, its by choice. You can make things much more simple..

Way too many positives not to do it, in my oppinion.. But, (the only real "con") those of us that do wont have much technical support along the way. Going to need to make it up as you go allong. But, if it runs in the Explorer, it will run in the Bronco, keep it simple and swap it all..

One last thing. OBDII has an Evap monitor. This will be something else you'll have to deal with.

 

[ALLMOTORMIKE]

What are you guys talking about? The explorer swap is not that hard. Put everything together and just find a custom tuner to turn off of change what you dont need. PATS can be turned off along with the cat monitors so there is no need to put a cat on the vehicle if you dont want too. Another thing the old EEC IV is old technology and very dumb. It does work but not a choice if you want to run a 4R70W. Try to find a SCT tuner that can take of your needs. I have used the explorer harness in a 85 Mustang so a friend of mine could have a 4R70W behing a 700hp motor. Its not hard just wire it up and yes you will have to pay to have it tuned but for max performance and driveability I would do that any way. They call it custom tuning for a reason.

 

[HGM]

What are you guys talking about? The explorer swap is not that hard. Put everything together and just find a custom tuner to turn off of change what you dont need. PATS can be turned off along with the cat monitors so there is no need to put a cat on the vehicle if you dont want too. Another thing the old EEC IV is old technology and very dumb. It does work but not a choice if you want to run a 4R70W. Try to find a SCT tuner that can take of your needs. I have used the explorer harness in a 85 Mustang so a friend of mine could have a 4R70W behing a 700hp motor. Its not hard just wire it up and yes you will have to pay to have it tuned but for max performance and driveability I would do that any way. They call it custom tuning for a reason.

;D I was wondering when you were going to chime in..;D

Many of the guys here have great experience with EECIV and making it work by peicing this and that together. But, for some reason, most folks are terrified by the EECV systems. I suppose its similar to those that pulled the EFI off 1980's vehicles in order to put carburetors on them.. Its just what you're comfortable with. Once you go OBDII, you'll never mess with the EECIV systems again..

 

[MattC]

Thanks for the input. I didn't know that ford made the EEC-V harness. I never bothered to look. I sent a message to RJM about it. I would rather buy one from RJM. From what I've read here on CB Ryan has been VERY supportive of the Bronco community and I would much rather support RJM than Ford especially now that Ford has shut down Fordfuelinjection. Plus for all I know Fords harness is made in China and I am a big supporter of the local little guy. Guess its because I am a local little guy. So the vote talley is 2 yea, 0 nay

 

[HGM]

Thanks for the input. I didn't know that ford made the EEC-V harness. I never bothered to look.

Well, its not a seperate harness for this application. It's the Explorer harness, you'd just need to modify it for your purposes.

 

[samamarshall]

Found these old links...swapping EEC-V from a 2000 or 01 explorer, a lot of info on the PATS system, ECU, etc. No updates in quite some time though.

http://www.classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124065

Also some of you may have read 'The Turd' build thread - used the motor straight out of a later model explorer, paired with a '96 ECM I believe that didn't have PATS, but would control the engine, and still used the coil packs, etc. Used a Optishift controller for the Trans though

Have my motor still sitting on the stand while I start body work, but will be paying attention here. I'd rather not use older Mustang stuff if I can.

http://www.classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175600

 

[Bronco_69]

I'd rather not use older Mustang stuff if I can.

http://www.classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175600

if you dont plan to run a computer controlled tranny the mustang stuff is by far the best deal going. it is simple, robust, and well documented.

 

[76MaBronco]

Found these old links...swapping EEC-V from a 2000 or 01 explorer, a lot of info on the PATS system, ECU, etc. No updates in quite some time though.

http://www.classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124065

Also some of you may have read 'The Turd' build thread - used the motor straight out of a later model explorer, paired with a '96 ECM I believe that didn't have PATS, but would control the engine, and still used the coil packs, etc. Used a Optishift controller for the Trans though

Have my motor still sitting on the stand while I start body work, but will be paying attention here. I'd rather not use older Mustang stuff if I can.

http://www.classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175600

That's correct...works awesome. The PATS system wasn't in the '97 and below years, so it works fine with the motor and other stock components...The Optishift is a great thing as well. Custom shift points, locking control, the works. I'm very pleased with the way it all came out.

 

[MattC]

Steve,
Why did you go with Optishift if you're using the Explorer EEC and harness? Just asking because from what I understand the EEC you have can control the trans as well. If that's the case than a tuner ( Tweecer / Quarterhorse / SCT ) should be able to tune your motor and trans as well. I'm just trying to plan my budget of whether I need to buy a tuner or tuner and controller.

On another note, I've been reading up on tuners. I think I'm going to go with the Quarterhorse unless anyone here thinks otherwise. It's a newer product with more capabilities than Tweecer. I haven't researched SCT yet. But one really cool option it has is a wireless adaptor to connect to a iPhone or iPad to monitor and make changes on the fly.
Quarterhorse - $250
Controller and wifi -$350
Total $600

http://www.moates.net/innovate-ot2-lc1-kit-obdii-wideband-afr-wifi-interface-pn-3832-3832-p-240.html

 

[MattC]

Next question is the 97 Explorer at the local JY has a "rebuilt motor" ,cold air intake, and "torque master" headers for the GTP heads. They look like short equal length headers. Does anyone know anything about them? I looked them up they're getting great reviews from the Explorer guys 20hp & 20-30 ft lbs of torque bump, and go for $700. Will they fit in the EB? I'm thinking I should pick them up and give them a shot.

I'm thinking of swapping EVERYTHING from this Explorer except the trans. My 99 4R has better internals than the 97. I like the logic that Ford engineered all of it to work together.

If I do a complete swap. What about the Explorer rear discs? I've read that the e- brake is too weak for 35's. I was planning on running 33's. Any advice?

 

[69LUBR]

FYI, The old Fordfuleinjection site has a mirror site:

http://www.rjminjectiontech.com/