Extending stock radius arms vs new cage arms

[bronko69er]

I know this doesn't have any thing to do with cage arms but it seems as though there are a lot of experts viewing this thread. I have the stonecrusher arms and installed them on my arms last night. When I measured the distance b/t the two ends it was roughtly 21" and the frame is 25" at the narrow point. Should I try to spread them and let the c-bushing absorb the difference or should I bulid a cross member and intall them a 21"s. I can't find anything or anyone with the similar problem.. I all extended arms seem to mount directly under the frame. Any help or idea would be appreciated.

I ran into the same issue when I built my arms. spreading them is fine if you have the muscle to do it. I actually had to loosten the caps, spread the arms, then retighten the caps. Just be careful to measure axle to frame on both sides after re-tightening the caps to ensure you dont have lean.

 

[bronko69er]

new information from a knowledgeable source is leading me towards the wristed axle housing instead of extended radius arms. thoughts?

what I'm hearing is that the extended arms are unecessary if you remove the bind from the axle housing with a WAH or wristed arm. Is there any way to add heims to the stock radius arms? I think I would like to go WAH with heims on the radius arms.

with the longer arms have any of you experienced problems with hitting the frame on up-travel? Or binding the driveshaft on down-travel?

WAH removes bind from the C-bushings,
and as you said, a heim or jonny would remove the other bushing bind.
In theory this would allow for as much articulation as long arms,
have you seen BC's arms?

 

[Bronco Beau]

I've got heims on the frame end so hopefully they will take out a lot of the stress. I appreciate your help.

 

[thumping]

I know this doesn't have any thing to do with cage arms but it seems as though there are a lot of experts viewing this thread. I have the stonecrusher arms and installed them on my arms last night. When I measured the distance b/t the two ends it was roughtly 21" and the frame is 25" at the narrow point. Should I try to spread them and let the c-bushing absorb the difference or should I bulid a cross member and intall them a 21"s. I can't find anything or anyone with the similar problem.. I all extended arms seem to mount directly under the frame. Any help or idea would be appreciated.

Good question. I've actually done both. I've loosened the c-caps and pulled the arms over to mount and then re-tightened the caps. I've also built a simple cross member. For the cross member here is what I've done. I cut 2 pieces of 1/4" plate 4"'s square. These were used on the inside of the frame rails. I then used a piece of 2" square tubing with 1/4" wall to go between the 1/4" plates bolted to the frame. For the mounts I used 4 pieces of 2"x2"x1/4" angle. After drilling a 3/4" hole through the angle, sandwich the heim between two piece of the angle and use a 3/4" bolt but do not tighten the nut tight. Raise the arm with the angle turned up so that the flat part of the top angle matches up to the bottom of 2" square tubing cross brace and tack weld. Remove the bolt and lower the heim and burn the mount in. After everything cooled down, reattach the heim and bolt. Bang, done.

I'll post some pictures of a friends that we did along with using stock arms with extensions to build a rear 3-link. He's on a hunting trip at the moment but as soon as he gets back I'll snap a few and post them.

Thanks, Anthony.
Stone Crusher Steering

 

[Hal9000]

Wouldn't spreading the arms just add additional tension/bind? It seems foolish to do it that way since everybody is trying to reduce the amount of bushing bind. My first thought on reading Beau's question was that I might have an excuse to bend my arms if I run into the same problem. I have a friend with a press that will probably do the trick, but if it doesn't, I bet that a torch and a cheater bar will do the trick and let me (or anybody else) put a nice z-bend in the arms to adjust the width.

Using a female/female adapter might be better but then I'd need a machine shop to tap the adapter and at that point it would be easier to just get the stonecrusher extensions.

Why not just buy the taps you need and DIY it? I'm assuming a RH and a LH thread tap so you could fine tune the length of the arms and use the adapter as an alignment tool, but I guess you could do them both the same way, Or maybe even go the stonecrusher route and weld the adapter onto the radius arm....

 

[DanWheeler]

WAH removes bind from the C-bushings,
and as you said, a heim or jonny would remove the other bushing bind.
In theory this would allow for as much articulation as long arms,
have you seen BC's arms?

yeah, the BC arms look pretty kickass but I started talking to Chuck (and I hope he doesn't mind me paraphrasing) and he said I would get more articulation with stock arms with a WAH compared to extended arms w/ heims and with less of the side effects of extended arms which he claimed were driveshaft issues and the arms hitting the frame on uptravel.

so if thats true its about $200 cheaper than new cage or BC arms and performs better. Then if I can find a way to cheaply put a heim on the stock arms or extend them with a heim (ie stonecrusher) i've eliminated all bind for under $600

 

[67broncorebuild]

Hey guys i have a question about the extended radius arms.
I have the old school(before they bent them for wheel clearance) wild horses extended radius arms. I also installed to to the duff radius arm adjustable mounts.
I moved the mounts to the frame 11 3/4 inches(was spesified in instructions) and the mounts are a bit too far back on the frame, leaving 2 1/2 inches to be shimmed on the frame. If i weld this bracket in, will it be suficiant, or practical? I have a 3 1/2" duff monster j suspension, 2" body lift, and 36" tires. I wonder if i should go with just regular mounts(like original)???

 

[bigmuddy]

Danwheeler, I have heard some really good things about the WAH. I beleive that you may have some additional cost by needing to ream the inside of the axles tube to slide the WAH inside it. If you can't do it yourself, that would be some added labor as well as tool cost? As my wife tells me: I'm not worried about the big cost, it's small parts runs and labor that I don't know about Smart woman ain't she!

Ben

 

[chuck]

yeah, the BC arms look pretty kickass but I started talking to Chuck (and I hope he doesn't mind me paraphrasing) and he said I would get more articulation with stock arms with a WAH compared to extended arms w/ heims and with less of the side effects of extended arms which he claimed were driveshaft issues and the arms hitting the frame on uptravel.

so if thats true its about $200 cheaper than new cage or BC arms and performs better. Then if I can find a way to cheaply put a heim on the stock arms or extend them with a heim (ie stonecrusher) i've eliminated all bind for under $600

I don't mind you repeating what I said. But to be sure you and everyone understands what I said/say aboutthe arms. Stock arms and stock front driveshafts are about the same length. Looked at from the side the radius arm and driveshaft make a parallelogram. As the diff goes up and down the two work to keep the pinion lined up with the driveshaft sort of like a 4 link. When you install a long arm it messes the parallelogram up. The end effect is the cardon joint binds sooner in droop that a stock arm does. On the up stroke the long arm hits the frame which does not happen with the stock length arms. When you compare long arms with stock arms with stock bushings the long arms will give more articulation because the added length provides more leverage to compress the C and radius arm bushings more. But when you change the radius arm bushings in the stock arms to heims a lot of the bind goes away so you get about the same articulation. The remaining bind is in the C bushings. With the WAH that bind is totally removed. With both of the above binds removed your only limits to articulation is things like track bar bushings(the reason I use a heim in the upper end of my track bar), the tierod to pitman arm bind, shock length and brake line length, those are easy fixes but when you get past that your limits are the oil pan going up and the driveshaft bind going down. I have 15" of wheel travel on my racer. On the up travel the tierod, track bar and drag link all hit the front of the stock size oil pan. On the down travel I have limit straps to stop the custom hi angle driveshaft from binding. Because the radius arms,coils and shocks are still mounted the same as stock the WAH has no effect on braking or ride. The brake torque is transferred to the radius arms same as stock. Cutting the axle tube as the same as removing the sway bar on a straight front axle, very little effect. When accelerating all the torque is transferred to the driver side radius arm.
As far as reaming for the WAH I don't recall anyone ever saying that they had to ream. Because of the rust inside the tubes everyone has to hone the inside and sometimes it takes a while. I have honed a lot of the axle tubes for the WAH and the most time I have spent is about 30 mins. I use a course cylinder hone and hand drill.

 

[bronko69er]

To throw another option in the mix, how about a hinged/pinned radius arm.

 

[bigmuddy]

Chuck/all, my bad apparently. I was going from memory and used Ream instead of Hone. I did however recall it taking much longer than thirty minutes but I guess that would depend on the axle as Chuck mentioned.

Ben

 

[chuck]

As you are talking honing you are right one of the first WAHs I sent out went to Howibuilt and I think he spent 5? hrs. honing his. My guess is there was something wrong with his housing or he had a beer and went to sleep while he was honing it? Whatever about his mostly they take much less time.

 

[6daze]

How does the WAH affect a trac bar riser? i.e. where does it sit on the axle? It looks like it would interfere with most risers out there.

It sure sounds like a good solution though.

 

[DanWheeler]

How does the WAH affect a trac bar riser? i.e. where does it sit on the axle? It looks like it would interfere with most risers out there.

It sure sounds like a good solution though.

dang, that is a good question. I almost bought the WAH tonight but I'll need to figure this out first.

Chuck, are you still reading this thread?

 

[DanWheeler]

dang, that is a good question. I almost bought the WAH tonight but I'll need to figure this out first.

Chuck, are you still reading this thread?

found a pic from the writeup here:
http://classicbroncos.com/wristedaxle.shtml

it doesn't look good. It might fit but I think the track bar riser might need to be cut back an inch or two

 

[6daze]

I have the Kiser Riser and from the looks of that pic, it will be in the way. It probably could be done if the WAH was put in first and the riser modified and added afterwards.

I guess we need measurements from Chuck.

BTW my riser ends about 3" from the center section.

 

[DanWheeler]

yeah, looks like my riser would definitely be in the way. shoooooooot!

 

[bronko69er]

I've heard good things about using a hinged/pinned radius arm.
It accomplishes virtually the same thing as the WAH with the ability to pin it on the road to retain the anti sway effect of the arms.
Combine that with the heim at the aft end of the arm and I believe you will achieve the same effect.
http://www.broncoii4x4.com/wristed-arm/wristed-arm.php

 

[DanWheeler]

I've heard good things about using a hinged/pinned radius arm.
It accomplishes virtually the same thing as the WAH with the ability to pin it on the road to retain the anti sway effect of the arms.
Combine that with the heim at the aft end of the arm and I believe you will achieve the same effect.

looks like thats what its going to have to be for me. I wonder if the BC arms can act like a wristed arm? Or could they be modified to be wristed?

If you took the 2nd bolt out that attached the arm it would be able to pivot but not sure how it would hold up offroad. probably not well but hmmm....

 

[bronko69er]

http://www.broncofix.com/viewtopic.php?t=261596