Help!!! 4R70W issues

[1buckeyefan1]

Sorry for the long post.. i'm at wit's end today and really need your guys help to troubleshoot further..

So i've been shaking down my 74 w/ a 2001 Explorer 5.0 and 4R70W swap.. in hopes of getting it to paint this fall..

I drove the 2001 Explorer around before i tore it down and it shifted/drove great. 122k on the odometer at the time. I just did the basics to the 4R70W.. dropped the pan, changed filter, cleaned it up.

I got the Bronco running earlier this year and miraculously, it ran/drove great at the initial start. I did some other body work and really got it going the last few months. I've driven it 4-5 miles and it drove/shifted great.

A few weekends ago as i was backing it into the garage, i noticed a howl/grinding noise as I was shifting in/out of reverse. I quickly shut it down. I drove it a few more times and nothing. It's starting to do it a little more.. only when shifting in/out of gears, usually between P-R-D

So today I decided to try and fix a leak on my D20/AA ZF adapter before I took it in for exhaust. I started by draining the transmission so it didn't splash all over when I pulled the transfer case. Got it all put back together, topped off the Dana20 and the Transmission w/ fluids and went to start it up.

Not only is the noise louder now, but I can't get it to go into any gear! I pulled the transmission pan and checked for a dropped filter, shavings, and watched the indents as my daughter shifted through the gears. All seems fine.

But now the noise is even worse.. almost like you're grinding gears on a manual transmission. It almost acts like it wants to go into gear (revs up), but nothing.

Even more odd is that I can't shift the dana20 when the transmission is in neutral. It grinds the transfer case, as if the transmission is still spinning???

I'm going to be up all night searching through forums.. and have all day to troubleshoot tomorrow. But im afraid to shift through gears to avoid further damage??

Thanks in advance!

 

[1buckeyefan1]

It almost feels like something is amiss with the torque converter? I'm going to try a few things tomorrow:

1.) try to pull any codes from the ECU.. i was unsuccessful earlier in getting my OBDII scanner to connect.. but figured i'd try this again first
2.) should I pull a transmission cooler line and see if i'm getting any flow?
3.) should i attempt to drain/replace all fluid, including the torque converter? I've read a little bit about how to drain it through the inspection cover?

I'm almost fearing that I installed something incorrectly here.. but not sure how I was able to drive 50mph and it shifted beautifully???

disclaimer: I'm very new to transmissions. Hopefully a more knowledgeable member can hold my hand here.. I'm not sure what kind of shop to even take this to for troubleshooting if I had to

 

[73azbronco]

maybe flexplate not bolted up correctly?

This thing has a TV cable? Adjusted correctly?

 

[1buckeyefan1]

maybe flexplate not bolted up correctly?

This thing has a TV cable? Adjusted correctly?

I removed the inspection cover and could see 2 studs. Gonna check it out a little more today. What should I be looking for?

To my knowledge there isn't a tv cable.. I think it's controlled through the explorer pcm? I honestly have no clue.

I do notice it's been idling higher lately vs when I first fired it up a few weeks ago. I chalked it up to not having the exhaust on yet and the o2 sensors plugged in and giving proper data.

Whatever the initial problem was prior to yesterday, i somehow made it worse by draining the trans fluid and re-attaching the transfer case.

 

[1buckeyefan1]

Could I possibly just be low on fluid? I remember ordering 12qts of merconV.. and used like 8 of them. When I dropped the pan yesterday and refilled, it took only about 3 before the pan showed full. everything I've read on the explorer forums was that it took like 4.5 after you drop the pan?

My previous thought was that the torque converter was previously full when i reinstalled into the bronco. What's the proper method of ensuring it 'fills' and consumes from the pan? Just idling? Im pretty nervous to shift through the gears with all of the grinding noise that is going on??

 

[66broncoCT]

Are you sure the transfer case is in gear? Sounds almost like it’s between 2 gear selections and that’s why you’ve got a grinding noise. Also it’s normal to not be able to shift the Dana 20 with an automatic in neutral. In neutral the fluid viscosity is enough to spin the output shaft slightly. Should be able to shift it in park though. Also when taking off the transfer case you don’t really need to drain the transmission pan. Yes you will get a little fluid out but not that much as long as you don’t tip the transmission way down to slide the Dana 20 out

 

[1buckeyefan1]

Are you sure the transfer case is in gear? Sounds almost like it’s between 2 gear selections and that’s why you’ve got a grinding noise. Also it’s normal to not be able to shift the Dana 20 with an automatic in neutral. In neutral the fluid viscosity is enough to spin the output shaft slightly. Should be able to shift it in park though. Also when taking off the transfer case you don’t really need to drain the transmission pan. Yes you will get a little fluid out but not that much as long as you don’t tip the transmission way down to slide the Dana 20 out

Yeah.. it sort of feels like the transmission case is not in gear. Ive got the jbfab twinsticks on it.. i've been shifting into 4H to test it.. but can't get anything to move in either 4H, 4L, etc

Good to know that i don't need to drain the trans when i drop the dana20.. since i'm probably going to do it again today.

Should I pull the twinsticks and try to shift it into place by hand?

 

[66broncoCT]

Yeah.. it sort of feels like the transmission case is not in gear. Ive got the jbfab twinsticks on it.. i've been shifting into 4H to test it.. but can't get anything to move in either 4H, 4L, etc

Good to know that i don't need to drain the trans when i drop the dana20.. since i'm probably going to do it again today.

Should I pull the twinsticks and try to shift it into place by hand?

I wouldn’t pull anything apart until you figure out what the problem is. But since you mentioned you used the zf5 adapter, did you instal the double sided seal to prevent transmission fluid transfer into the transfer case? You should be able to look at the position of the shift rails on the Dana 20 and tell what gear it’s in. If you can’t get it to shift try either rocking it back and forth a bit or jack up the bronco and put it in jackstanfs so all 4 tires are off the ground. That way there can’t be any tension built up on the driveline. With twin sticks it should be easy to shift.

 

[1buckeyefan1]

I wouldn’t pull anything apart until you figure out what the problem is. But since you mentioned you used the zf5 adapter, did you instal the double sided seal to prevent transmission fluid transfer into the transfer case? You should be able to look at the position of the shift rails on the Dana 20 and tell what gear it’s in. If you can’t get it to shift try either rocking it back and forth a bit or jack up the bronco and put it in jackstanfs so all 4 tires are off the ground. That way there can’t be any tension built up on the driveline. With twin sticks it should be easy to shift.

Yep, i installed the seal in the ZF adapter using the old thread. I don't seem to be getting any ATF into the transfer case (I even drained it yesterday a bit and it was all Royal Purple)

It *really* feels like a transfer case issue. The front spins freely. When i was shifting through yesterday, the engine really felt like it was going into gear, but nothing?

Pretty sure it's in two wheel high now? (see picture)

I'm not really sure how to troubleshoot the transfer case. I'm resisting pulling it off the adapter and 'reseating'.. but it's only fits onto the spline or it doesnt?

 

[bigmuddy]

Can you post a quick video with sound? as that would be helpful.

Also take a piece of rod and hold it to your ear then to various parts of the tranny or T case to see if you can isolate the sound. If its really loud then you probably can't hear the difference but throwing it out there.

 

[1buckeyefan1]

Here's what i've done so far...

- No related PCM codes (P1460 & P1703)
- Pulled the return line to the trans cooler and confirmed it's pumping
- Left the transfer case in neutral

I took a video as I shifted from P->R->D and back again. Once I got back to P, it was still grinding?? It only starts the grinding noise as I attempt to shift between gears. I've idled for minutes and no noise.

I did not try to put the transfer case in gear..

 

[73azbronco]

try moving the d20 shifters a little and see if grinding noise changes.

 

[1buckeyefan1]

try moving the d20 shifters a little and see if grinding noise changes.

Yep, I can feel/hear the grinding of gears when I attempt to do that.. someone else mentioned that the transmission tailshaft is always spinning (even in neutral)?

 

[bigmuddy]

Yep, I can feel/hear the grinding of gears when I attempt to do that.. someone else mentioned that the transmission tailshaft is always spinning (even in neutral)?

I am not a tranny expert but that wouldn't make sense. If the tail shaft kept spinning in neutral with the T case engaged and motor running the rear driveline would spin and so would the wheels/tires. Maybe I am missing something here.. I think I would pull the T-case down and check the linkage and make sure the case is engaging and moving properly with the inspection cover off.

 

[EPB72]

Yep, I can feel/hear the grinding of gears when I attempt to do that.. someone else mentioned that the transmission tailshaft is always spinning (even in neutral)?

Yes but no... In drive ,reverse Low. yes the output shaft should turn.... In neutral maybe , internal friction may allow ouput shaft to turn as long as the wheels are off the ground, ,,, In park not at all If the park Pawl is properly engaged/ing.. which can cause alot of noise if not working properly??

 

[1buckeyefan1]

Yes but no... In drive ,reverse Low. yes the output shaft should turn.... In neutral maybe , internal friction may allow ouput shaft to turn as long as the wheels are off the ground, ,,, In park not at all If the park Pawl is properly engaged/ing.. which can cause alot of noise if not working properly??

I think I've narrowed it down to either the 4r70w parking pawl or the transfer case. No idea why the pawl would be acting up now..other than I did swap the linkage for the lokar kit.

Just waiting on another set of hands and a stethoscope to debug further

 

[Viperwolf1]

Sounds like transfer case is in neutral. The grinding noise is the park pawl so it's probably still in one piece.

 

[73azbronco]

go back and reset lokar linkage step by step, cheap check.

 

[1buckeyefan1]

Sounds like transfer case is in neutral. The grinding noise is the park pawl so it's probably still in one piece.

Yep, transfer case was in neutral. I had some issues with my twin sticks that became apparent once i took the inspection cover off.

I also dropped the trans pan again and the pawl is in one piece. What now?

 

[1buckeyefan1]

go back and reset lokar linkage step by step, cheap check.

Yep, this is my next step. i'm running out of things to check. Transfer case is ok, pawl is ok. The linkage is hitting all of the detents.. would this be causing a howling noise if not adjusted properly?