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Help determining new gear ratios/ grimmjeeper

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
I've never had a three speed in a Bronco, but I've been curious if a three speed from a six could be used on a V8. They're both 3.03 top loaders.
If you could, I'd think that the six cylinder three speed gear ratio would be more appropriate. The cost would be right too. I've seen them given away.

3 spd (6 cyl) 3.41 1.86 1.00
3 spd (8 cyl) 2.99 1.75 1.00
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,710
Was looked into a few years back. Not going to happen. Was even going so far as swapping gears between cases.

The V8 3-speed is as good as a 3-speed gets.
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
Was looked into a few years back. Not going to happen. Was even going so far as swapping gears between cases.

The V8 3-speed is as good as a 3-speed gets.

Bummer!

So, all the V8 Bronco trannys came with terribly high 1st /second gear ratios. The C4 is the worst. at 2.46 and 1.46.
I guess Ford was figuring the owners would be keeping the factory tire size.?:?
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,710
Actually the 3-speed isn't that bad. The top loader is something like 2.7? in the wide ratio version and the close ratio is in the 2.3 range. The later model mustang T5 (bad choice for a Bronco) is only a 2.95 1st gear.

So for a road going 3-speed the 2.99 is pretty respectable. And the spacing is about as wide as you would really care for anyway.

The I6 3.4 1st gear is a crutch like the standard 4.11 gears. To try and get every possible thing out of an engine that is too small.

Now when dealing with an automatic things get fuzzy. The torque convertor multiplies torque. In extreme cases (full throttle, not moving) it is pretty much double. So the 2.46 can twist off the line more like a 5:1. But not always a double in torque, as speed increases (transmission input shaft speed) the multiplication drops off. And part throttle is part multiplication as well. Things get less predictable when you add in power loss, slip, heat generated and dissipated. And engine braking you have the convertor slipping backwards (transmission input shaft spinning faster than the engine) and the torque multiplication only works one way. So you really don't have engine braking of a 2.46 ratio, and again not a fixed amount as speed is a factor along with slip.

There is not much that can be done without adding more gears, and that is a different transmission. The 5-speeds (AX-15, NV3550, M5R2) have a lower 1st gear and closer spacing between the gears. They also add an overdrive on top of the 1:1 top gear of the 3 and 4 speeds. But you really need to plan the axle gearing correctly to use that overdrive gear. In which case you are lowering axle gears again to get a usable overdrive gear. And if the engine is still a dog, all the extra gears still won't do anything for you.

I was looking back and saw
Thanks for the input! I did forget that really important part, the transmision is a manual 3 speed. I like the speed she cruisies at but hate that I have to get the rpm's way up to get her off the line. Most of my driving will be around town between 25-55 MPH with the occasional highway driving.
A retarded cam shifts the powerband higher in the RPM band. The old trick to make an engine pull stronger at lower RPM is to advance the cam timing. This is where I was heavily suggesting to just put a good straight timing set in. With a worn timing chain you will be way retarded (higher RPM power). You don't even have to advance the timing, just get back to normal timing will advance the cam a lot and get you a lot more low end power.

How to check for timing chain wear. The quick way is to remove the distributor cap so you can watch the pointer. Now manually turn the crank pulley. Go back a forth a few times. Ideally there is no play, everything turns in perfect time. Reality is there will be a little play in the chain and a little backlash in the distributor gear. But little, not a quarter turn, that is massive. Another way is to remove the fuel pump so you can check the timing chain through the fuel pump access hole. You need to rotate the crank pulley a little counterclockwise so the slack will be on the fuel pump side. Feel how floppy it is in there.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,461
I've seen those gear ratio listings before. Now it's too late to check, but my original '71 3.03 had the lower first gear and a horrible 1-2 shift drop in rpm. When I removed it to rebuild I got a replacement trans to keep me on the road. Same everything, except the first gear.
That one had the 2.99 and it was a complete dog! However, I loved the shorter jump between first and second gears, and it felt like I could keep the rpm in a more manageable range when driving. Especially around town and on mountain roads.

But it was so sucky compared to my original that I quickly rebuilt the original and put it back in. What a relief that was.
If the 2.99 is in fact what all EB's with V8's came with, I can completely understand why everyone hates them so much. Great shifting trans, but horrible choice of gears. Even in low-range it felt like a totally different beast and I refused to even try to take it four-wheeling while it had that interim gearbox installed.

Unfortunately I sold that one right away and my original quite a few years ago now too. So I can't verify. All I know is that they were really different with different personalities, but that the close-ratio box as I called it, would have been suitable only for street. And would have been better with stock tires.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,461
Because I'm not the original owner and the first PO used it pretty hard, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they either broke the original and swapped this one in, or someone knew what was what and changed the first gear (if that's possible?), or the whole box out of a six equipped EB.

When I got the Bronco it was actually in very good shape for it's potentially hard life, and nothing was out of line and nothing looked replaced. But it did have roughly 60k miles on it and 5 years, so anything is possible.
Ahh, but I do still have the original intermediate/adapter housing so I can measure that.
My next project for today...%)

Paul
 

Jdgephar

Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
1,384
I have the 3 spd, 33's and 3.50 gears. But my 302 is built .030 over, cammed, with mustang EFI. My only complaint is taking off in 1st if I'm trying to tow something. Otherwise I can cruise in 3rd, and if I need the power, 2nd will merge into traffic at 70mph.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
OP
OP
clinem03

clinem03

Full Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2017
Messages
401
Thanks for all the insight and thoughts on this! I think I'll replace the timing chain before I do anything else and see how she handles.
 
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