Help me plan my 5.8 efi build

[slcpunk]

I am getting back into the swing of building my 74 and I am starting to plan my engine. I have a 95 roller cam 5.8 out of a bronco that I plan to rebuild and I also have a knock off edelbrock performer rpm efi style entake(upper and lower). I have the mustang efi harness, tb, mass air, and computer.

I am going to be running most likely 35s with a 4r70w and 4.56 or 4.77 gears. I will never wheel this it will be a street cruier and maybe a show now and again.

I want to do the edelbrock heads maybe performer or rpm?
I also dont want to spend an arm and a leg on a forged crank and h beam rods.
I am mostly looking for what cam, what heads, and what is the stock crank and rods good to(hp and rpm?)?

Thanks guys

 

[SnwMnkys]

Ive got a similiar setup to yours. Edelbrock RPM intake, 30lb injectors, BKK 65mm TB, and 73mm MAF. Im leaving the bottom end stock, and putting World Products Windsor Jr heads on it, and a Crane cam with 216/228 duration. Not really the heads of my choice but i got them for such a good deal that ill run them anyway since low end torque is somewhat of a factor since i do wheel mine, but i would rather of gone the Windsor Sr's.

Since yours isnt going to see the trail i would go with the Performer RPM heads, and a good breathing streetable cam. Let that motor breath. If youre going to rebuild the bottom end, I would look into doing a 393 stroker. You can buy relatively cheap cast cranks, find some good quality I beam rods, and then some off the shelf 302 pistons.

If you just stick those heads and a good cam in it then i wouldnt worry about the limits of the lower end, it will handle the HP its creating, and unless you are just abusing it by revving it to 6k rpm at every stop light then there really isnt anything to worry about.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Do you have the engine apart? If the crank needs work, do a stroker kit. The cast kits are fine for street driven naturally asperated use. If you are on the cheap and the crank is good you can reuse it. Rods, good ARP bolts on stock rods. If you want aftermarket rods get a crank/rods/pistons stroker kit.

You could go either way on the heads. IF you do stroker get the RPMs as you will have more inches that need feeding.

Stock crank will do 6000, I do that all the time. But the stock rods that came out of my engine were no longer straight after the last owner (thanks Mike!) did some 6000 RPM stints on a stock bottom end. My cure is a set of Motorsports M-6200-B351 rods. But you will never find a set of these rods, they were never listed in the catalog, only had one ad for them ever and were targeted at circle track racers. They are reported to live very well to 7000 RPM. I just can't have normal stuff.

For a cam I always recomend a little less then you think you want. I'll throw a couple of possible cams at you. Crane 444211 or 444221 would be a ballpark for a good running cam. The choices are endless, you really should call the cam manufactureres tech line and compare there ideas as well. You will need to know the crank, compression, heads, gear ratio before you talk to them (or let them help you pick the parts to make a good match of parts)

 

[slcpunk]

What about the ford racing cams and also what about strokers and efi? I thought the strokers threw the efi off thats why I ruled that out. I really dont wanna blow my wad on getting this thing tuned forever on a computer.

I dont have the engine apart yet but I did check the crank and rod bearings and they looked pretty good(for 150k) so I asssume the crank is good.

Hey snwmnkys is your bronc running? what about givin me a ride sometime?

 

[slcpunk]

also should I look at getting the 2.02 valve heads or the 1.90?

And what c/r should I be shooting for? I dont mind buying 87 oct but I would rather not have to be forced to get 89

 

[Broncobowsher]

The stock mustang 19lb injectors are near max capacity with just the stock 351. So larger injectors will be needed. The injectors/computer/MAF combo are a matched set. There are some BS tuning tricks that they try with the MAFs to trick the computer into running the larger injectors, but really a custom chip is a better way of doing it. Couple hundred bucks will get you a chip and a tune and probably a little time on the dyno to see how well it really does run. The basics are real simple, the tuner takes the box code for the computer you have, the MAF you will use (hopefully it is a real well known version that has known good curves) and programs the new MAF curve into the computer. Then updates the computer with the size injector you are using. There is also a setting for the displacment of the engine. Simple basic tune, as good and generic as left the factory and a better match then just tossing mustang EFI onto a 351. Then from there custom tuning can be done to fine tune it for the exact heads/cam/whatever you are running.

 

[slcpunk]

that doesnt sound too bad and I saw some good sounding stroker kits on ebay for around $800 now would just need to find one with a lower cr http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...m14QQhashZitem230283056262QQitemZ230283056262


ever hear anything about the procomp heads? are they just knock off junk or what?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-...m14QQhashZitem270268559861QQitemZ270268559861

 

[Viperwolf1]

I wouldn't worry much about the stock crank and rods unless you are pushing out in excess of 400 HP. It's always a good idea to have to rods rebuilt and add ARP bolts. If you want to add a little more durability to them you can polish the beams to eliminate any stress risers. Same is true for the crank. If you do remove any material you will need to have the rotating assembly re-balanced (good idea anyway). As for the C/R you can go up to 9.5-10 to 1 with aluminum heads and a mild cam without detonation problems. The aluminum transfers heat faster than iron.

 

[smoktf250]

Well the biggest issue with building a 5.8l is that you dont really have any "medium" intake the only ones offered by edelbrock for a 5.8l are RPM or the Victor. I went the victor route which is alot more money lol. Since I bought a forged crank, forged i beams (lighter and stonger tha the h beams) and forged pistons roughly 2k right there not taking into consideration afr205 which are close to another 2k. If it was me I would just do a mild build and go with the edelbrock rpm heads and the rpm intake. My build will be a little over 11:1 compression ration which will run fine on pump gas 91 octane. My buddy has a 408 in his bronco and runs 12:1 on 91 timing has everything to do with this though. If I was you I would go with a cast crank (3.850 stroke), some cnc i beams(5.956), and forged pistons(4.030). You should be able to find this kit for under a $1000. A 393 would be best in my opinion. Flat top pistons with 60cc heads will have a cr of about 11::1 which would be best for 91 octane. Dished pistons will drop the compression ration to about 9:1 I personally would stay around 9:1 for what you want. If you get the bigger valve 2.02 you will more than likely have to have your pistons notched out. Here is a cr calculator that may help you...http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html Cam wise I just had mine custom made. I told them what I wanted what the motor was, weight of car, gear ration, etc and they hooked me up. My cam was made by ultradyne. You will also probably need to upgrade your injectors to some 32lbs or so. Hope this helps cal.

 

[SnwMnkys]

What about the ford racing cams and also what about strokers and efi? I thought the strokers threw the efi off thats why I ruled that out. I really dont wanna blow my wad on getting this thing tuned forever on a computer.

I dont have the engine apart yet but I did check the crank and rod bearings and they looked pretty good(for 150k) so I asssume the crank is good.

Hey snwmnkys is your bronc running? what about givin me a ride sometime?

Theres nothing wrong with Fords "alphabet" cams. But there are dozens of better grinds out there. As long as you have a Mass Air Flow type fuel injection then strokers, cams, and heads wont affect the tuning. Just make sure you have the right size injectors and correct MAF sensor. Those Pro Comp heads are hit and miss, ive heard of people having no problems with them, and then ive heard of people saying they are the most expensive paper weights theyve ever bought. I would find a good used set of name brand heads on Ebay or locally if you are worried about cost.

I dont mind giving you a ride sometime, I dont have the EFI, cam and heads in it right now, but it still moves pretty good. My tranny went out though, hopefully ill have it fixed within the next week or 2, where do you live at?

 

[slcpunk]

Theres nothing wrong with Fords "alphabet" cams. But there are dozens of better grinds out there. As long as you have a Mass Air Flow type fuel injection then strokers, cams, and heads wont affect the tuning. Just make sure you have the right size injectors and correct MAF sensor. Those Pro Comp heads are hit and miss, ive heard of people having no problems with them, and then ive heard of people saying they are the most expensive paper weights theyve ever bought. I would find a good used set of name brand heads on Ebay or locally if you are worried about cost.

I dont mind giving you a ride sometime, I dont have the EFI, cam and heads in it right now, but it still moves pretty good. My tranny went out though, hopefully ill have it fixed within the next week or 2, where do you live at?

I live in west Bountiful(about 10min north of slc).
I would be very interested in checking it out. Pm me when your trans is in.

 

[slcpunk]

so ok here is the plan...
I have the rpm manifold so get some rpm heads to match
possibly a stroker or just a polish and re-balance
most likely a custom cam
and I am looking foe 9-10:1 c/r

sounds like I have a plan and I am way to interested in this to finish my body work before snow flys... Well I guess while I am doing the rest of the body work I can save up and get ready to build the engine this winter.

 

[needabronco]

I'd definitely match your RPM intake to the cam. I run a performer edelbrock cam in my 302 and I'm very happy with the low end, the upper could be a little better IMO, but it goes pretty good.

Why not find a set of GT40 heads for a couple hundred bucks and run those? While they don't flow quite as good as a set of aluminum heads, they're better than stock and much less than aftermarket. If I remember SLC has some pretty big junkyards around there...

I'd also look at running 9:1-9.5:1, if you want to run 87 octane. My rig is right at 9.5:1 and while it runs good on low grade, it always runs better on mid-high grade gas at higher altitude. If you google a compression ratio calculator the percentage of power loss to run a lower compression ratio is not very much, and it mostly effects horsepower at higher rpms (above 4000). Maybe only 2% when looking at say 9.5:1 down to 8.9:1....

If you search the big bronco sites there's quite a bit of good info about cam selection for the 5.8's.

Good luck.

 

[Broncobowsher]

so ok here is the plan...
I have the rpm manifold so get some rpm heads to match
possibly a stroker or just a polish and re-balance
most likely a custom cam
and I am looking foe 9-10:1 c/r

sounds like I have a plan and I am way to interested in this to finish my body work before snow flys... Well I guess while I am doing the rest of the body work I can save up and get ready to build the engine this winter.

That sounds like a good combo. I would still call several cam companies. Enough cams exist that you may find an off the shelf cam that would work. If not then custom is always an option.