Holley sniper install start up

[Dkeir@cox.net]

Hello, I'm having a problem with start up. I installed a sniper throttle body system with there hyperspark coil and distributor. At the same time I installed a 1 wire alternator from summit. After installing all of the parts and removing all the old parts: distributor, coil, 3 wire alt or I guess it was really a two wire alternator ( the brown wire was disconnected) I have a few wires hanging out with no where to go.
Big black wire with yellow stripe that went to alternator( 12v all the time) . Small yellow wire that is spliced to bigger black with yellow stripe.( 12 volt all the time).Green with red stripe that went to voltage regulator ( no voltage key off, 12 volts key on , 8 volts with key turned to start ) red with green stripes that went to coil.( no voltage key off, 12 volts key on, 8 volts start position)
So the holley system needs more than 10 volts to "say alive" in both start and on positions.
The holley tech had me install 30 amp relay directly to battery to try to prevent voltage drop under 10. I did this tieing trigger wire to the green with red tracer and the brown wire at the ignition .
But I still have the same voltage drop with that set up.
All the grounds look good and battery is full charged, new starter and solenoid.
If any one has any suggestions, please let me know
Thanks in advance!

 

[ngsd]

Have you talked to the Holley tech team?

 

[DirtDonk]

As far as the wires not needed, they are truly not needed at this point, but can be good to have around anyway.
So the large Black w/yellow stripe is the same wire (it's a big loop) that you see at the starter relay/solenoid. Same size, sometimes with a stripe, sometimes just all Black. That's your main power and other than the battery cables is the largest gauge wire on the Bronco from the factory.

The Green w/red was the old regulator, as you said. It's not needed anymore, but is normally a good source for switched power in both ON and START.
Same with the Red w/green coil wire. Power in ON and START directly from the ignition switch.
Yellow wire was voltage regulator also, but not needed other than for conveniently powering something new of your choosing that needs constant power.

You have an option here, as with the other wires you can either cut all four of them off and cap them safely so they never touch metal or another wire, or you can temporarily attach them to auxiliary power studs to power other stuff. Such as your relay and such.

Now, for the loss of power, that's a wiring issue perhaps, or a starter issue. But now you know why most people converting to EFI and computers need new wiring harnesses! The old stuff is just not always up to snuff.

But first you need to find out why the huge drop in voltage during START. Either the starter is drawing too much current, or your wiring is insufficient for the task.
To that end, are you running an old style starter, or a newer starter with it's own piggybacked solenoid, like a "mini" starter?
Either way, how old is the starter?

How old is the ignition switch itself? Can you trace voltage throughout the system?

How much ignition advance did you dial in, or do you know yet? You might need to retard the ignition a little initially to make it easier to start. Or is the setup procedure for the Hyperspark pretty intense and exacting? If so then they probably have it dialed in properly.

What size and age are the battery cables? Are they old, or small, or extra long?
I recommend 2ga (it's pretty overkill for most, but that's just enough for me!) at least and keep them as short as possible.
Where does your main cable ground? Is it on the engine block itself, preferably near the starter? Or is it on one of the brackets, or out at the alternator or somewhere else?
Do you have additional grounds to the body from the battery, and from the engine to the body, and from the engine and/or body to the frame?

These are all important aspects of a healthy electrical system. Your battery needs to be able to keep up until the new 1-wire alternator kicks in. Unlike a 3-wire you are not even getting a charge until the vehicle starts and you can rev it up to 1500 rpm or so. Meaning there's no leeway for a weak or too-small battery, or weak old tired wires, or a weak old tired starter.

Check all those basics off the list first, then see what else you can find that would drop the power to 8v in the system.
Obviously the battery has more than that because if it did not it would not crank the motor. So that weak voltage is in the rest of the system.

Good luck.
Oh, and post up some pics of the under hood area too.

Thanks

Paul

 

[Dkeir@cox.net]

Thanks for your reply Dirt...
The motor ground is on the alt bracket it's a 4 wire I believe. I have a 6 wire to the frame and two 10 wires on the sheet metal .
I did connect a heavy jumper cable from negative terminal to starter ,it didn't seem to change voltage at start.
It's an "new" rebuilt ,old style starter. It does seem to spin easyer than the old one.

I actually doubled up the positive cable and it's very short to the solenoid.

I did talk with Holley. Its sounds like I have the holley stuff hooked up correctly.

I can run another ground to the starter easy enough.
But I'm not sure what my next step should be

Thanks Again!!

 

[DirtDonk]

The motor ground is on the alt bracket it's a 4 wire I believe.

Good size, but not the best location each time.
Nothing wrong with it inherently (the engine block and all that metal are decent conductors) but if there is paint, rust, more paint and more rust, then the electrons sometimes are not that efficient at getting around.
What's the condition of the area around the ground? Clean and paint-free? No rust on the bolt and the threads in the engine block/cylinder head? If not, I would move the ground down lower to the block itself without extra brackets in-between.

I have a 6 wire to the frame and two 10 wires on the sheet metal

Nice! Sounds like you have done enough with the grounds.
Well, another good one we discovered more with the FiTech installs, but could benefit any, would be a small jumper wire between the throttle-body attaching bolts/nuts/studs and the engine block, or intake manifold.
Again with the paint and dirty thread idea. The closer it is to a battery ground, without gaskets and rusty bolts in-between, the better.
Sure, it's over-thinking it. But sometimes that's still just barely enough with these fancy electronic gizmos on an old utility vehicle.

I did connect a heavy jumper cable from negative terminal to starter, it didn't seem to change voltage at start.

Ok, well that's a pretty definitive test as far as I'm concerned. Makes sense.
At least it proves that the cabling is sufficient. Does not prove the starter is not tired, but it at least makes it less likely.
However, you said you were getting the big drop even at the new relay you installed, correct?
Did you happen to take voltage measurements right at the battery terminals? If so, and the battery still drops to 8v during crank, I'd say your battery is losing it's edge, or the starter is indeed pulling some serious amperage while trying to turn the motor over.

That's all I can think of that would do this system-wide.

It's an "new" rebuilt ,old style starter. It does seem to spin easier than the old one.

Well that's a good indicator as well. I would not suspect it of drawing too much current then, if it's even better than the old one. They still draw more current than the modern PMGR style, and maybe that's why Ford changed to them about the same time that the electronics were taking over the world.
But there are plenty of EFI setups out there running this type of starter, so I don't see it being a big drag (as the hippies used to say) at this point.

I actually doubled up the positive cable and it's very short to the solenoid.

No lack of power on your build!

I can run another ground to the starter easy enough.

That would not hurt. Even though it's a hassle and may not fix anything at this point, it's about the only aspect you have not confirmed yet, other than the battery itself.

Good luck!

Paul

 

[Broncobowsher]

Put the volt meter across the battery terminals, take a reading while cranking the engine. What do you have? How does this compare to the Sniper voltage while cranking?

Do you still run the big original style starter or have you changed to a modern starter? That can cut the amp draw nearly in half.

I still run one of the big old starters on my Snipered big block. I took switched 12V off what once fed the duraspark. No ballast resistor and hot in run and crank. Never had a low voltage issue. Are you dropping the display screen or anything like that? I have had the sniper up and running for over a year. I recall there is a heavy gauge power and ground wires, and a separate small turn on wire. Where do you have the big wires run to? The small gauge wire, where does it go? is the problem the big wires dropping too low in voltage or the little turn on wire dropping voltage?

 

[68Broncoz]

I would measure the voltage at the battery terminals. If the voltage drops at the terminals it is a battery issue.

Just tested my starter on a fully charged older battery and would not crank. New
battery the starter worked fine.

 

[Dkeir@cox.net]

Thanks for all the input. I'll try to do the draw down test, I. Guess that's what it's called. And probably get a new one and move ground cable to starter. The new style starter sounds like the next step .
Stay tuned.

 

[snipes243]

The Holleys like you mention are extremely sensitive if they don't see a constant 12volts.
A couple of things things you might want to try is make sure your battery is big enough and all the cells are in good shape.

The ECU power must be connected directly to the battery, or they can go crazy.

Also on the sniper can you hook a laptop up to the system? If so you can use the real time graph function to see if you are loosing the 12v on crank. These little graphs have helped me a ton over the years.

Also the holley forum has tons of info

https://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?23118-Holley-Sniper-cutting-out-losing-power

 

[377]

You might take a close look at the starter. I had a brand new starter from TBP and was having significant voltage drop at start up. All my wiring was new as was the starter. So I thought maybe it’s the battery (yellow top Optima). Replaced the battery problem fixed......... temporarily. Started having the same voltage drop and then starter started dragging. Then I notice my high beam indicator lighting up and no head lights. Turns out the starter was back feeding into the battery and then into the distribution block my headlight relay power was coming from. I also noticed the starter solenoid was warm after attempting to start the engine (5-10 seconds). I took starter and had it tested and it was bad. I replaced the starter and absolutely no problem. Might be something to look into. Hope this might help.