How do I determine if my 302 is worth rebuilding? (It wasn't, bought long block)

[Vragor]

You don't know what the 'rebuild' consisted of after it seized?..or you don't know what he did to seize the engine in the first place?..or both??:?

Both. What the boyfriend did has changed from "just going down the road" to "going down a dirt road" to "turning around to go back to the highway".

I thought I had a pretty good mechanic and took the Bronco to him the next day. 2 days later he called to say the motor needed a major overhaul to fix it. I think he said it would be at least a thousand dollars. I said OK without getting a firm estimate in writing or fully understanding what was wrong with it (stupid me). 2 weeks later he called to say it was ready and that it would cost $2,500. I about choked but I had said yes so I paid it.

 

[mrw]

With all that your motors been through and your lack of experience with engine internals coupled with all sorts of experienced people not being able to figure it out, it kinda comes down to how much time do you want to waste on that motor before you start heading for something good and reliable?

I would consider calling around or visiting a few local junkyards or auto recyclers. 302's are common motors so finding a low mileage running take-out shouldn't be too hard, or too expensive. Clean it up, bolt it in and drive that Bronco! You might even be able to get a newer fuel-injected motor and the necessary electronics for a lot less than your budget. ;D

 

[bmc69]

Both. What the boyfriend did has changed from "just going down the road" to "going down a dirt road" to "turning around to go back to the highway"..

Well it goes without saying that the boyfriend is totally full of chit with 'all of the above', don't it? 35 years of horribly abusing 302s in every way imaginable and I've yet managed to seize one. So that takes some doin!! I've seen a couple that were well-ventilated when rod let go, however..;D

MRW has it right. Since the current engine has clearly been the victim of a 'pack of liars'..you would be far better off started with a known-good baseline before spending another cent.

 

[trailbound]

I don't know about about CO pricing, but a buddy of mine just had his motor (289) bored .30 honed and a new rotating assembly installed for 1200. now that number is dramatically less than your budget.

I would yank your motor, pull a head and either gauge the cylinder wall or try and get the number of the top of the piston. Like said before, if its .30 or greater than your done. There is no sense in having a .60 over motor.

You can ask your local speed shops about their prefered machine shops, but some times machine shops are very proud of their work and their price reflects that. That being said, I use what would be the best machine shop in town and they come highly recommended by a lot of the go-fast boys. But i use them not just because they do great work, but because they dont gouge me on the price.

With your budget and winter fast approaching, I think i would just look for a short block and have your stock heads reconditioned. You should still have money left over for a nice cam, intake and carb.

 

[dbevans2249]

"Power brakes did become poor about the time I finally stopped driving it"
This could indicate low vacume or a vacume leak in / to the booster. You already had the heads off and it looked good. I think a vacume test before pulling the motor would be a good idea. If it is low you might want to try blocking off the manafold to the brake booster to eliminate it. Cam / cam timing is suspect to me also. It just sounds to me like the motor is basicly good with some minor problem such as a bad cam, vacume leak or cam installed wrong / flatened.

 

[bmc69]

Sounds like he will be taking a good look at it torn down..according to previous post. I know my curiosity is up...;D

 

[Vragor]

Well under way getting the motor ready to pull.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

There ya' go !!!

My first motor rebuild was done by reading a Chiltons and tons of other research.
Don't be afraid to do this yourself , either with your current block if it is still rebuildable or a replacement motor from a boneyard. Get a decnt torque wrench ....

I'd consider a 351 also , if you have to go the replacement route. That will make the Bronco even more fun than it was in the past.

 

[fatboy]

Good luck with this. Take the time up front so that you don't have to visit this a 4th time...

 

[Rox Crusher]

There ya' go !!!
That will make the Bronco even more fun than it was in the past.

now we're talking...............if I was gonna get a new engine I would go 351

 

[Vragor]

All ready to pull but can't get the engine to come forward at all.

Reading the "How to Rebuild Small-Block Ford Engines" mentions that some older enginges have stud motor mounts but doesn't say one word about what to do if that's what you have.

Luckily I stumbled on a decent forum search and came up with a quote from Bigmotormouth back in '06.

My best advice is to unbolt the engine mounts first and then pick up on the 302 and remove the engine mounts. Then you can let the motor drop farther down to get at some the harder bolts along the top of the bell housing.

It felt like a chinese puzzle. I couldn't slide the motor forward to disengage the transmission because the studs were blocking any forward progress and I couldn't lift the engine high enough to disengage the motor mount studs. I'll go pull the motor mounts off and see if that does the trick.

I'd consider a 351 also , if you have to go the replacement route. That will make the Bronco even more fun than it was in the past.

I think a 351 would be beyond my skill, budget, and comfort level. I'm not looking for rockzilla out of this, I just want a dependable daily driver and weekend semi-warrior.

I also found my first evidence of the work of a poor mechanic. There were 4 empty bolt holes between the bell and block, and no bolts at all holding the bottom plate against the bell housing.

I went ahead and pulled the intake manifold so I could use one of the intake bolts and get more threads engaged to hold the chain.

I was also suprised when I removed the clutch frame pivot bracket and the metal piece between the bell crank arm and the clutch arm just fell off. It's just held in place by the return pressure of the clutch arm pushing it over the threaded rod extending from the bell crank arm.

By the way, what do other car owners do when they don't have those big flat fender wells to set tools and bolts on?

 

[Rox Crusher]

I think a 351 would be beyond my skill, budget, and comfort level. I'm not looking for rockzilla out of this, I just want a dependable daily driver and weekend semi-warrior.


Replacing the current 302 with a 351 is really very simple and I doubt it would cost much more at all................if you have time and patience to find a good deal.............I am sure it could be done on the budget you have established.

 

[Vragor]

Replacing the current 302 with a 351 is really very simple and I doubt it would cost much more at all................if you have time and patience to find a good deal.............I am sure it could be done on the budget you have established.

Every 351 thread seems to start with a statement like "really very simple", but it ends with "Oops, I thought I had enough room but I had to cut into my firewall, or I had to get a new radiator, or I had to cut out and weld in new motor mounts, etc etc.

I'm sure it's easy if you've done it before or really understand what has to be done, but it looks like a big gray cloud of mystery to me.


Pulling the motor

Driver's side pistons

Passenger side pistons - Obviously one piston isn't working the same as the others.

Checking the pistons, they are all .040

The cylinder wall of the odd pison has some slight marring on the sides and is a different piston from all the others.

This is what most pistons look like when I clean them off

This is the odd piston. It is the same size as the others

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Kudos on posting pics , not sure why that makes a thread so much better , but it does.

I noticed that you have a stock hood , which MAY cause clearance issues with a 351 , unless you have a body lift. So you are probably better off sticking with a 302 for budget reasons. They are slightly taller than 302's.

I've never cared for the 302 in a truck application , which is why I mentioned it to begin with. Must not bug me too bad though , as my street rig still has the 302 .... for now.

EDIT : I see you researched .... and got the motor out , while I was typing. Way to go!

 

[bmc69]

First of all..you have been reading amateur or idiot 351 conversion threads..the friggin motors bolt right in as all the rest of the threads will confirm. The ONLY routine problem is intake/air cleaner clearance if you have no body lift and/or stock hood.


That odd looking piston in your motor is being continually bathed in coolant. Here is my guess: cracked cylinder on that piston. Prompt me futher and I'll tell ya how..but you already gave the culprits a pass so what's the difference? Anywho..since your engine is already over .030..do not spend a penny on it.

 

[Rox Crusher]

lookie here

http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1870301738.html

http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1831317865.html

;D

 

[Vragor]

Stock hood, uncut fenders, no body lift.

I don't have a wheel puller so I'll have to borrow/rent one from an autoparts on Monday. So I can't check to see if the timing chain is wrong.

 

[broncnaz]

Dont think I've ever heard of one 351W swap thread that had any issues. Certainly not firewall or motor mount issues. Hood clearance is the only issue but even that has been overcome with the right manifold.

Doubt I'd really go any farther I'd find a replacement block. .040 over already and one clean piston is not a good sign. either a cracked cylinder as was said or a cracked head hard to say but going .060 over is not the best idea while it can be done if the block is good your teetering on the edge of reliability. Maybe if you inspect the it really good it might have only been a head gasket leak but the block side head gasket didnt apear to be leaking.

 

[JDJ]

If you go to http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/ you can get a 302 roller short block for around $699 and a roller 351w short block for $999 if my memory serves me correctly.

Might be worth checking out. I remembered this from one of my mustang mag.

 

[Vragor]

When I mentioned firewall and motor mounts I was paraphrasing from memory. You read enough threads on here and they all blur together.

I found an article detailing the most common things that have to be dealt with on a 351 conversion.

Bronco Driver Article on 351 Swap

1) New Oil Pan & oil pump
2) Distributor
3) Accessory relocation and aligning
4) New Harmonic Balancer
5) Exhaust linkage
6) Throttle linkage
7) Clutch linkage
8) Hood clearance
9) New Intake manifold

Most threads agree that a 1" or 2" body lift would make the 351 fit better, but that brings a whole other set of things to do and worry about.