How do I determine if my 302 is worth rebuilding? (It wasn't, bought long block)

[Vragor]

Took my Optima Red battery down to Batteries Plus to see if it can be recovered. It was reading 4.7 volts. They said it will take between 24 and 48 hours to see if it's recoverable. If it is, they'll charge $3.50 for it.

Aces didn't know exactly what heads they put on the long block. 76 - 85 302. They have stacks of them. I didn't get the casting numbers before I put the intake on.

 

[Vragor]

Here are all of my Torque values out of the 1970 Ford Shop Manual

 

[Vragor]

Bah, The Optima would only get to 12.03 volts even though they pumped 10 amps into it for the last few hours, so they declare it dead.

Now I have to decide whether to spend another bunch of money on another Optima or go cheap.

 

[brocken]

Check out the Sears Diehard Platinum. They're made by Oddyssey and they are SOLID (literally). Optima's used to be great but I think their quality took a dive over the last several years. When you pick up a battery and it feels like nothing is in it...something is wrong.

The warranty on the Platinum is great too. I want to say it's a 5 or 7 year full replacement. Plus, they're supposed to last a long time without a charge and not damage the battery. AGM (glass matt) is much better than standard plates for something that might sit quite a bit.
Regular battery is fine though if you drive it at least on a weekly basis.

 

[Vragor]

The Diehard platinum and Optima are both too expensive right now. If I spend my spare money anywhere, I want a 23 gallon gas tank.

 

[Vragor]

I just noticed that the new heads take different sized spark plugs. Much smaller openings.

Did all 76 to 85 302s take the same spark plugs?

If they did, what do I need to ask for at the autoparts store?

If they didn't, what do I need to do to figure out which plugs I need?

 

[blubuckaroo]

All late model small blocks use 14MM plugs with a .460" reach. Your heat range and gap will depend on your compression and ignition system. Personally, I'd use an Autolite 24, gapped to your origonal specs. The origonal heads would have taken an Autolite 45. It was an 18MM plug with a .460" reach.

 

[Vragor]

Put the motor back in today. I pulled it by myself, but this time my son was home from his summer job and a friend came by to help. Very glad they did.

Got the tranny re-engaged, bell housing torqued down, motor mounts done, exhaust done, and clutch hooked up.

 

[Colorado75Bronc]

thats awesome im glad you're finally making some progress!

 

[Vragor]

thats awesome im glad you're finally making some progress!

My daughter's wedding and a work trip slowed me down for 2 weeks.

 

[Vragor]

So today was the day. I finished the alternator and power steering pump install. Belts and pullys all tightened. Shroud and Radiator. Water and oil. Plugs and wires. Fuel to the carbuerator and plugged all the extra tubes coming out of the Quadrajet that I don't understand.

Checked a bunch of bolts to be sure I didn't leave something loose.

Finally I attached the battery. I pulled the power wire off of the carbuerator and gingerly turned over the engine. It spun beautifully and sounded fine.

I was worried about the baffles in the valve covers clicking a bit, but the thumping we gave them seems to have given the needed clearance. We really didn't thump them all that much.

Put the power wire on the electronic ignition and turned it over again. It didn't seem to even try to start.

I pulled out the timing light and had my son turn it over. I couldn't see the timing mark at all. I loosened the bolt on the distributor and swung it each direction as far as I could but still didn't see the mark. I can't move the distributor more than about 20 degrees back and forth because it interferes with either the heater hose port or the carb.

I pulled the #1 wire and swapped it to the left one port and turned it over again. Voila, there's my timing mark. So I finish swapping all wires left one.

Turned it over again, and VROOOMMMM!!!!!!!

I fiddled a bit more with timing but it sounded really good and strong.

I still know very little about this carbuerator. It would run for 8 seconds but slowly the butterflys would close and it would die. A tiny tap of the throttle would keep it going though. Once it warmed up, it kept running great.

Smoke started to come off of the exhaust manifolds which I expected because of the penetrating oil I used when I took it all apart.

After it had run for 10 minutes I saw a little bit of water dripping. Then a bit more. Suddenly there was water flying all over the place.

I shut down the engine and tried to identify where the water was coming from.

Couldn't see water coming out of any of the hose ends. Thermostat housing was all dry. Top of the water pump was dry.

It almost looked like the water was pouring out the bottom of the water pump. It's a brand new water pump from Advance.

Do I have any options except to take the whole front end back apart?

 

[Vragor]

I went ahead and pulled everything off the front of the motor, and pulled the water pump.

It's hard to tell just what was wrong.

I put Permatex on both sides of the gasket between the pump and the front cover, but I realize that since it's a brand new pump, I did nothing with the gasket between the plate and the housing. Maybe I should have.

I'll get 2 new gaskets, then permatex both of them.

 

[Vragor]

I'm not sure what the cause of the overheat was. I posted another thread about the problem and got several good responses, but the best response was from someone on Facebook. They told me to pull the thermostat out, keep the cap off the radiator and see if water can be seen flowing out of the core, and it could.

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169666

 

[Vragor]

I've got my 302 back in and fired up.

It was idling around 2000 rpms and after it warmed up it would rise to 3000. Then I found yet another vacuum line on my quadrajet that was open. Very low on the front between the carb and distributor.

Plugging the line caused the motor to die, leaving it open causes the idle to go very high. After allot of web searching, I attached it to the PCV and it seemed to work fairly well, but it's still running poorly.

Carb # is 17057582 - CHEV 77 350 HI ALT NON A/C

Is the PCV the right thing to put there?

 

[DirtDonk]

I'd have to see a pic to be sure, but basically the PCV should have the valve itself in one cover, with a roughly 3/8" tube going to a matching fitting in the base of the carb. Different carbs have them in different positions though. Some in the rear, some in the front, some in the sides. I worked on a 'Cruiser with the fitting on the passenger side base, so I put the valve in the passenger side valve cover for convenience.

Then the other valve cover would get the simple hose fitting to run a tube into the air filter housing somewhere. That, or there would just be a cap with it's own filter put there if that was easier. Just as long as it's filtered air being pulled into the cover opposite the PCV valve, you should be fine.

Your high idle could simply be adjustments. Everything has to be balanced, from the ignition timing, to the throttle blade and choke mechanisms, to any electric throttle solenoids. Include in that mix any air leaks, and you've got a system.
Lots of potential vacuum leaks in a new system too, so when you get it idling somewhere closer to 1000 rpm, start spraying some carb cleaner, or even water, all around the place to see if there is any change in the idle speed/quality when you hit a certain point.

Paul

 

[Vragor]

I got ahold of Chuck at BC. The instructions that I'd gotten with the carb were very generic and covered 4 different manufacturer's carbs.

I asked about my Quadrajet and he said every port should be plugged except the small one near the fuel inlet that goes to the Distributor, and the threaded one out the back that goes to the brake booster.

So I plugged the port and put the PCV back onto the port toward the rear of the intake manifold. The engine started up easily and stayed ideling beautifully. After letting it warm up I drove it around the block and it ran great.

I've now driven it over a hundred miles and its driving great. Better than how I remember it running at the best of times. Great pickup from a start and strong through the gears.

It's such a relief to be able to drive it again.

 

[DirtDonk]

I bet!
Did you mean that your pcv valve is hooked to the rear of the carb? Or to a port that is actually on the manifold?
If the pcv is on the manifold, make sure it's to a common plenum port and not an individual runner. The individual runner for the number 4 cylinder is a common place for intake manifold vacuum "trees" to go, which is why I ask.
Only things like brake boosters and other, non-constant, non-major vacuum accessories should be there. Something like the pcv valve that can flow vacuum and pull vapors into the system should only go to a common plenum area, such as the base of the carb.
If it's to the runner, I'd re-plumb it to the carb. If that's what you said and I just misunderstood... Nevermind. ;D

Paul

 

[Rox Crusher]

I've now driven it over a hundred miles and its driving great. Better than how I remember it running at the best of times. Great pickup from a start and strong through the gears.

It's such a relief to be able to drive it again.

Great news (thought we were gonna lose you there for a while) and CONGRATULATIONS on a job well done.

 

[Vragor]

I bet!
If it's to the runner, I'd re-plumb it to the carb. If that's what you said and I just misunderstood... Nevermind. ;D

I would bet that your are right and it's to a single runner.

Should I put a T off of the line from the back of the carb and run both brakes and PCV from it?

Great news (thought we were gonna lose you there for a while) and CONGRATULATIONS on a job well done.

I didn't have much choice but to get her running. I've commuted all summer on my motorcycle, but that won't work soon. I got a ton of help from these boards though, and that made a huge difference.

Took the Bronco up Mt Herman road just outside of Colorado Springs Sunday morning. It ran beautifully, and other than burping a bit of extra coolant out the top of my makeshift overflow bottle, I had not a single problem. I could have climbed the whole thing in 3rd if I wanted, but I stayed in 2nd and just enjoyed the ride up.

 

[DirtDonk]

Hey! Great pics of a great place are a very nice way to wind down a thread!

As for the T, you can do that, but I'd just swap 'em. Run the PCV from the back of the carb/manifold plenum area, and run the power booster from the manifold runner.
The booster is a non-constant vacuum draw anyway. As long as it's not leaking, it's only really disrupting the mix in the runner during braking.

Use whatever is convenient for you, but the factory puts the booster on the runner/vacuum tree and the PCV to the base of the carb.

Paul