How Does The A Pillar Attach?

[DSJW]

Hi All,

I have a situation where the PO cut off 3"-4" of the lower sheet metal all the way around the vehicle. At the fenders this is no biggie but at the tub it means that the rocker panels are gone.

When I got my Bronco the passenger door was hard to open and hanging at an odd angle so, as a machinist, I made some tapered shims to go between the door hinge and the pillar. Worked great as a quick fix (that has lasted for years). There was/is a 3/8" gap where the door opening is supposed to be attached to the face of the A pillar at the very bottom. Now I see that the problem seems to be getting worse and the A pillar on the passenger side is likely detached(?) from the rest of the body.

So, what is supposed to hold the A pillar to the vehicle?

Thank you for your help!

 

[DirtDonk]

Well, it's kind of a mishmash of attached parts in that corner. Obviously the upper part is the windshield frame, which is just floating on a hinge, but everything below that is part of the main structure.
Here are the basics as I see it:

Hinge post: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Door_Post_Driver

Inner kick panel: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Left_Kick_Panel_OEM_Style

Connected to this: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Left_Inner_Fender_Apron

And connected to this at the bottom: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Rocker_Panel_Kit

there are probably several threads addressing this already with pics and everything if you can find them.
Good luck with your project.

Paul

 

[NGABronco]

Will this help you any???%)%)%) You may need to be shimming the body mounts, behind the door or in the front floor pan???

 

[DSJW]

Will this help you any???%)%)%) You may need to be shimming the body mounts, behind the door or in the front floor pan???

NGABronco, thank you for that. I actually found that during a search and printed it out a few months ago when I started looking at this issue more seriously. I don't think this is an issue of shimming to correct alignment. I'm beginning to think that when the PO cut out the rocker panels and lower sheet metal he also removed the lower attaching points for the A pillar and it is now "floating" at the bottom. That's why I'm curious about the original method Ford used to attach the A pillar and where those points were located.

Question for anyone who might know; are all the A pillar attaching points done with spot welds or are there nut/bolt attaching points?

Thank You!

 

[broncosbybart]

The door post is spot welded to the kick panel. No bolts. You will need to remove the fender to do it. I find it unlikely that the post has worked loose but could be possible if no rocker is there at all. I have never seen one done that way. More likely it and/or the kick panel are rusted out.

Oh- and if the door post really is detatching, the rear portion of the fender will be flexing or bowing as it attaches directly to the post.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yep, all spot welds. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that there really is no "A-pillar" on an Early Bronco.
Not that there isn't something that looks the part, but all you get is a seam here and a seam there that create some support for the door. The only constructed component in all that (other than what you make when you weld all the pieces of sheet metal together) is the door hinge post. And that's just a thin double-walled plate with nut plates captured between.
Not much in the way of real strength there until they're all welded nicely together. So could see how, with a little extra rust helping things along like Bart said, the lack of support could turn into a real wobbly door.
After all, if the rocker panel is gone, the only support for the "pillar" is a flat kick panel and three screws through the lip of the fender. And those doors are heavy!

Good luck. Let us know what you find when you dig into it. Take some pics and show us what you've got. You got us curious now.;D

Paul

 

[DSJW]

Pics as Requested

So... taking the pics I can see that things have definitely gotten worse. I'll put the pics in two posts.
#1 is a side view, you can see the PO cut out the rocker panels along with the bottom 3" to 4" of sheet metal all the way around.
#2 the two aluminum shims that I made many years ago to get the door to close reasonably well
#3 and #4 show the widening gap
#5 I used to be able to see the top and bottom of this nut and bolt. Recently I noticed that the bolt head on the top is slowly being pulled down

One note, this is a '77 with an early top and there is only one bolt at each corner connecting the top to the windshield frame. The PO didn't drill out the holes to match before he put on the older top.

 

[DSJW]

More Pics

#1 is where the lower door opening sheet metal has pulled away from the pillar about 3/8", this has been there since the day I bought the Bronco. The copper sheet metal is to keep a nasty squeak from driving my better half crazy, sadly it also hides a good view of the gap
#2 is a crack that was there when I bought this 20+ years ago. At that point, and up to fairly recently, it was flush and the gap between the two edges was only about 1/16". It has not extended further towards the transmission tunnel.
#3 the crack from the bottom, the gap is much wider and the levels are no longer the same height
#4 all the bits from underneath
#5 if you look just to the left of the pillar's left edge you can see that is has rotated forward at the bottom by almost 3/4"

 

[DirtDonk]

Yep, looks like a bit of work ahead.
That area actually has a lot of flex in it when driving, even with the rockers fully attached. I can only imagine that removing them without any further reinforcement would allow even more flex. So already compromised joints and welds would be put under more stress.

At least it's mostly straight edges and, unlike Humpty Dumpty, can go back together again. Hmm, I think that's my first (and hopefully last?) reference to a child's fairy tale since I've been here.%)
But hey, it seems appropriate with regard to Bronco bodies.;D

Paul

 

[DSJW]

Yep, it looks like that entire section is completely unsupported at this point. I wonder if the remaining spot welds finally busted. It may be more work than I want to put into it at this point, something I will have to think about as we've been together a long time, LOL. The driver side got the same exact treatment, rocker panel and bottom 3" to 4" of sheet metal cut off, but it is solid as a rock.

Thank you for your comments!

 

[jamesf7278]

if it was me, and I just wanted to get back on the road, I would just grab a jack and lift up on whats left of the door post, or anywhere I could get movement to get everything half ass lined up, and weld the hell out of it everywhere I could see separated parts or broken welds. looks like the kickpanel, and the floor brace/doorpost spots have all come apart, tearing the floor with it. cut some sheet metal to patch that up too. can be put at least close to right position I think.

good luck!

 

[Broncobowsher]

I have never seen the floor fatigue crack there before. I'm really surprised to see the rockers cut off (looks like with a torch no less) but amazingly little rust.
Many years ago I installed a set of BCs ¼" rocker panel guards. I was really amazed at how much that stiffened up the body feel. So the rockers do have structure to them.

As to fixing this one. I'm at a bit of a loss. I would probably start attacking it like rust repair. The tricky part is the body has shifted already. Normally the body hasn't shifted and you can add braces around what you repair. So somehow find a way to undo the movement that has occurred, brace, replace.

 

[NGABronco]

DSJW, go back to the chart I posted, are the openings on your door 39" at the top and at the bottom??? Shimming will change those, front shimming will open the top and rear shimming will change the top. Your body rubbers can change both (worn or new??). There is really not an "A" pillar, it's the combination of the door support, inner fender, body support and floor board. Good luck!!!;D;D;D

 

[NGABronco]

Your first pic shows the door opening larger at the top rear, and at the front it angles down to the fender and wider at the bottom front. The door has not changed so the opening has changed. If you loosen the body bolts in the floor and shim that up it will put the door opening back to fit the door???
I think!!!;D;D;D

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=379240&d=1446772094

 

[chrlsful]

no "A" in these babies, it's all just like 'folded paper". therefore fold more paper across it (Like ace bandages: tack sheet metal over areas to reinforce - then a layer from the other direction. My volvo had 4 panels overlap at some points *from the manufacturer* - their idea of strength-built-in).

 

[migs]

I have some pictures of that area starting on this page of my build thread. I had to replace my rocker and found a little rust there. If you scroll through the next few pages you can see my finished repair.
I know it's no where near as bad, but does show how it would have looked originally for reference if needed.