Howell EFI issues

[Desertfox1023]

So I have a Howell TBI setup on my 5.0

When cranking sometimes my injectors due not fire. The PO told me it was due to the voltage dropping when cranking and the injectors don't turn on. I've replaced the Injectors and the battery and still have the issue intermentaly. Go to crank and the voltage drops below 12.

If I pour a little fuel in the throttle body it will fire up and the injectors will start firing just fine.

Other times if I'm on an incline or off camber I mash the clutch and it tries to stall out even with the clutch all the way in. I have to hit the throttle to keep it rpms up to about 1K to stay running.

I've talked to Howell and they've been pretty helpful but anyone have any other input here? I know these are two separate issues but I'm open to feedback on how to fix either or both.

Thanks

 

[DirtDonk]

Hmm. It's actually pretty normal for the voltage to momentarily drop to well below 12 when cranking the starter. But these issues are probably one of the main reasons Ford changed to a low-draw starter like they did back in the late '80's if I remember.
Many call them "mini-starters" because they resemble the old aftermarket mini-starters that were popular (and expensive) back in the day. Ford calls it a "PMGR" starter, for permanent magnet, gear reduction. Takes less battery current to crank the engine at pretty high speeds.

That and upsizing the battery and starter cables will also help.
Are your battery cables newer? What size are they and are they in fantastic condition without ever having been compromised by corrosion at either end?
What about the grounds? Is your main ground connected directly to the engine block, preferrably closer to the starter motor itself? And do you have additional grounds to the body?
These conditions can all help or hinder your starting voltage.

Good luck. Be nice to get rid of that little bit of a bummer.

paul

 

[Broncobowsher]

I have seen this. The stock Bronco ignition switch is not reliable at providing ignition power while in the crank position. Most of the time it will, but sometimes it won't. In stock for this is irrelevant, the ignition bypass wire (from the starter solenoid "I" post bypassing the ballast resistor wire to the positive side of the coil.

The EFI being wired into the ignition switch get the sometimes missing power in crank. But unlike the stock ignition that doesn't care because there is a bypass circuit in play, the EFI does care and won't give you any love.

When you prime the engine you bypass the computer delivering the start up fuel. Once the key is released back into run the computer is alive and doing its magic.

It isn't a Howell specific thing, I first found it on old Holley ProJection stuff.

 

[Fitz24]

I ran into a similar problem a while back. I don't think the voltage drop should matter. Mine will run fine with 11 volts after it has sat for 4 or 5 months.

Have you checked for codes? There is a way to jump two pins on the OBD plug under dash and count the number of times the break warning light (I think) flashes. Howell can tell you or google it. I found my issue was the TPS after checking for codes. Replace and has been fine since.

Not saying this is your issue but check for codes and see it there is a problem somewhere with a sensor or .....

Good luck.

 

[Desertfox1023]

Are your battery cables newer? What size are they and are they in fantastic condition without ever having been compromised by corrosion at either end?
What about the grounds? Is your main ground connected directly to the engine block, preferrably closer to the starter motor itself? And do you have additional grounds to the body?
These conditions can all help or hinder your starting voltage.

Good luck. Be nice to get rid of that little bit of a bummer.

paul

Cables and connections are clean and in good shape. I just replaced the battery with a Group 65 AGM.

All the cables are at least 2AWG and there is a ground straight off the battery to block

 

[Desertfox1023]

I have seen this. The stock Bronco ignition switch is not reliable at providing ignition power while in the crank position.

Whole wiring harness is custom and I've traced most all of it out. Kill switch powers a MSD box and the Howell computer. Howell system is the main wiring with a 12V guy switch box. So it a push button start that hits the starter relay.

 

[Desertfox1023]

I ran into a similar problem a while back. I don't think the voltage drop should matter. Mine will run fine with 11 volts after it has sat for 4 or 5 months.

Have you checked for codes? There is a way to jump two pins on the OBD plug under dash and count the number of times the break warning light (I think) flashes. Howell can tell you or google it. I found my issue was the TPS after checking for codes. Replace and has been fine since.

Not saying this is your issue but check for codes and see it there is a problem somewhere with a sensor or .....

Good luck.

I don't have an OBD1 reader but I do know if the voltage is 11ish above <on gauge> the injectors fire. I'm sure there is at least a .5 V drop to the Guage though from when I read directly off the battery. I haven't traced out where the alt gauge gets its signal

 

[Desertfox1023]

Is there some part numbers on the low amp Starter? With it being a manual it gets its fair share of use when crawling around. I have the 157 tooth flywheel and it is a 86 F150 bell housing

 

[EPB72]

To flash codes providing you have a check engine light of some sort. you jump pins A and B then turn key on ..long flashes is the ten spot and the short flash is the ones spot .you will get a code 12 first 3 times then the next code 3 times ,then the next 3 times then will repeat code 12 ...

IF .low voltage at injector I'd do a voltage drop test and correct any issues if any...
I've seen plenty GM TBI vehicles run with charging issues and they continue to run till batt. voltage drops down to 8 volts.and also start with weak batteries that drop off to 9 ish volts while cranking...

but try to pull codes to see if that points you in any direction ,,,or Idealy find or find someone that can plug in a scanner and see if they can get data ..

 

[Desertfox1023]

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/howell-tbi-installed-wont-fire-up-1515163/

Found this which describes my issue exactly. Including he can put fuel in and it runs fine. Just no fuel on crank. I will look to see what this B5 terminal is

 

[Fitz24]

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/howell-tbi-installed-wont-fire-up-1515163/

Found this which describes my issue exactly. Including he can put fuel in and it runs fine. Just no fuel on crank. I will look to see what this B5 terminal is

Read the info on that link you posted. Hopefully that is your problem and it's easy to resolve.

Good luck.

 

[snipes243]

Is there some part numbers on the low amp Starter? With it being a manual it gets its fair share of use when crawling around. I have the 157 tooth flywheel and it is a 86 F150 bell housing

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KGICCK...Vehicle=1&vehicleId=10&vehicleType=automotive

 

[Desertfox1023]

Pasting this here to read later, from the HOWELL Installation manual

CHECK: If you are having problems with deceleration stall coming up to a stop, or rolling low idle, refer to idle air adjustment instructions below. Before beginning adjustment, grind the throttle stop screw plug flat and drill into the plug to allow a T-20 Torx driver to access the adjusting screw (GM TBI only).

1. Jumper the A and B terminals of the ALDL connector.
2. Turn the ignition key on, but do not start engine (this will close idle air control).
3. Disconnect the 4 pin idle air control connector.
4. Remove the jumper from the ALDL connector and start the engine.
5. With engine running at idle, adjust throttle stop for desired MINIMUM idle speed.
6. Turn engine off and reconnect idle air control.
7. This should correct the problem. If not contact Howell at 810-765-5100

 

[Desertfox1023]

So been a while since I updated this and have made a few attempts and even talked to Howell.

Replaced the starter with a Gear starter and that seemed to help. Then after about a day it didn't. Realized then that the battery was flat and after jumping it and charging it 2 different times decided the alternator was bad. So upgraded to a 130AMP 3G unit and that is working great. But still doesn't always want to start, runs better and usually I can get it to fire every 3rd or 4th hit of the starter.

I tracked down its not always getting the tach signal when cranking and confirmed this with howell as well. So been trying to figure out where to go next and then today discovered a possible issue.

When I hit the starter you hear it spin everytime, but you can tell an audible difference in the starter free spinning and when the engine is trying to crank. I just thought it was the sound these gear ones make as I've never had one. So the thing I noticed is that if I go to crank it in gear clutch out the starter should move the rig and it does when it's firing. It doesn't though when it doesn't try to fire and you hear the starter making that free spinning sound.

Did I get a bad starter out of the box by chance?

 

[Jdgephar]

Do you have the correct starter? Auto and manual have a different "reach" to the ring gear.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

 

[Desertfox1023]

I bought what Snipes posted in the link. Says it was for the manual.
DB Electrical SFD0012 Starter Compatible With/Replacement For Ford Mini Pmgr 302 351 Manual Transmissions, Bronco E F Series Vans & Pickups 323-510, 336-1165 SFD0012 113218 10465346 F2TU-11000-AA

 

[DirtDonk]

It's always possible to get a bad part right out of the box. But was it doing exactly the same thing with the other starter? If so then it might be some of the teeth on the ring gear, or something else.
Might be a good idea to at least rule it out by removing the starter (again!) and rotating the engine by hand while watching the ring gear teeth rolling by.

Paul

 

[Desertfox1023]

Well I can finally close out this issue. The final problem was the starter.

To summarize the alternator is what quit working initially. Putting out enough to keep it running but wasn't charging the battery. The battery has been upgraded to a group 65 AMG style vs the smaller battery it had before. Also a new G3 130 Amp Alternator vs the old single wire 100amp.

Final fix was upgraded to a Permanent Magnet starter to help with cranking However, the first unit I received had a problem with the bendix.

Thanks everyone for helping steer me in the right direction.