Installing new 302 Roller into original 3 speed transmission.

[doubletrouble]

Guys, this is my first time posting, and I am thankful to those that can help. So, to give you all an idea, I have a 70 Bronco Sport. I am doing a frame off restoration, and planning on installing a newer 302 Roller cam motor. Potentially from a 1995 F-150. I am choosing this off of budget alone. I am a freshly out college student that isn’t making enough to go ham on a build. Regardless, this newer long block configuration engine will be going into my original 3 speed engine with the Dana 20 transfer case. My questions are. What am I to expect to replace, or add on to make this work. I’m talking everything I need to change/buy for it to fit. I am being told my balancer and fly wheel would have to go to a 50oz one. I’m also being told I can put in a 1970 timing cover to add the mechanical fuel pump. I would have to install the cam pump drive to make the fuel pump work. Other than that, would all of my original parts work? Things as in my current alternator bracket, my power steering pump bracket, my bell housing. Would I have any issues mounting my 3 speed manual transmission to this? Also, would I need a 95 clutch, or a 70 clutch to make it work? I know enough about cars to make it work, I just need details as to what I need before hand, so I can order the specifics and not have any hiccups when installing it all back together. I’m planning on adding a/c later on, and efi later on. For budget sake it’s going on right now with just power steering and carb.

 

[thegreatjustino]

For the most part, the '95 block will bolt in just like the original 302. A few differences - the 50 oz imbalance that you mention. The EB clutch should work fine. The front dress from the EB will also work. That block won't have a threaded hole for the mechanical clutch linkage, which means you'll need the adapter from WH:

EFI Clutch Bell Crank Equalizer Adapter Bracket, 66-77 Bronco

Check out the deal on EFI Clutch Bell Crank Equalizer Adapter Bracket, 66-77 Bronco at WILD HORSES 4X4

www.wildhorses4x4.com

 

[jamesroney]

Guys, this is my first time posting, and I am thankful to those that can help. So, to give you all an idea, I have a 70 Bronco Sport. I am doing a frame off restoration, and planning on installing a newer 302 Roller cam motor. Potentially from a 1995 F-150. I am choosing this off of budget alone. I am a freshly out college student that isn’t making enough to go ham on a build. Regardless, this newer long block configuration engine will be going into my original 3 speed engine with the Dana 20 transfer case. My questions are. What am I to expect to replace, or add on to make this work. I’m talking everything I need to change/buy for it to fit. I am being told my balancer and fly wheel would have to go to a 50oz one. I’m also being told I can put in a 1970 timing cover to add the mechanical fuel pump. I would have to install the cam pump drive to make the fuel pump work. Other than that, would all of my original parts work? Things as in my current alternator bracket, my power steering pump bracket, my bell housing. Would I have any issues mounting my 3 speed manual transmission to this? Also, would I need a 95 clutch, or a 70 clutch to make it work? I know enough about cars to make it work, I just need details as to what I need before hand, so I can order the specifics and not have any hiccups when installing it all back together. I’m planning on adding a/c later on, and efi later on. For budget sake it’s going on right now with just power steering and carb.

Gonna need a distributor with a steel gear too.
Also need to re-use the longer camshaft dowel pin from your 70.
Also need a 50 oz flywheel. You need to get the clutch that fits that flywheel.
You will need a 3 bolt damper with a 50 oz weight. Then your pulleys will fit.

 

[Broncobowsher]

See if I can piece this together starting at the front...
Aftermarket damper would be the best solution to get the Bronco 3-bolt pulleys to play with the 50oz-in engine. Timing chain cover forward off the '70 will be fine. You may hve to remove an alignment dowel for the timing cover on the front of the block. Hint for putting the timing cover on without that dowel, put the crank damper on even if temperary. This is to center the crank seal as you tighten down the cover bolts and let the RTV set up.
There are long and short ecentrics and matching cam sprockets. You will have to pair them correctly.
Distributor gear from the old distributor is wrong material for the roller cam. It will start, run, and you can even drive it around for awhile. Then the gears shread and spread metal shavings through the engine destroying all your good work. You need a roller compatible distributor gear for that factory roller cam.
The new engine will have an extra dipstick hole on the driver's side of the block that will need plugging. A small welch/expansion/freeze plug works great for sealing it off quick and easy.
You will want to use a Bronco oil pump pickup with the Bronco oil pan. The newer engine looks almost the same, almost.
The new block is 99% likely not going to have a bolt hole for the clutch linkage. There are aftermarket kits from any Bronco vendor to take care of that.
Mating to the old 3-speed uses all the '70 parts EXCEPT flyweel. Mid 80's F150 302 flywheel should be the right one. Correct balance for late model, large 164 tooth to match the truck bellhousing, but still the old clutch pattern. There are some people who know this stuff better than I do that can match you up with a modern diaphragm clutch and flywheel which I consider an upgrade if you are replacing the clutch while you are in there.
I would avoid doing a roller pilot bearing 'upgrade'. The tip of the input shaft probably isn't perfect anymore. The old school bronze bushing will conform to those imperfections better than needle bearings rolling across it will.
Don't forget the thermactor port plugs at the back of the heads or you will have an exhaust leak that will be a huge pain to fix after you install the engine. Or will be simple easy before the engine goes in.

 

[doubletrouble]

Wowzers, this is quite a bit more of fine details than what I anticipated. All in all, if I’m getting a new engine, would you guys suggest I still go roller? Or should I just find a flat tappet, and avoid the potential hiccups? I plan on driving the car as a weekend toy. No real off roading, more of a street baby. I live in the city, so ideally I’d want to be able to drive on the freeway if needed. Just didn’t know if it makes sense to get a roller or not. Potentially planning on going 5 speed on it too, since I’m already putting in this much money into it. Thoughts ?

 

[Broncobowsher]

I would run the roller cam. A lot of those gotcha things will apply to any small block being swapped in. There are some late 70's blocks that have an extra hole in the back that needs plugging. The right oil pump pickup applies to all of them. Most will be 4-bolt damper, so the same for swapping back to the Bronco 3-bolt.

Roller cam doesn't eat lifters with modern oils. The roller cam is so much more efficient at getting valves opened and closed at the right time. That '95 engine having run all its life with EFI probably has better cylinder walls today than the '70 had when it was built brand new.

 

[Timmy390]

One half dozen another. Every swap will have some hurdles. If you go 351W you get around the whole balance issue and the stock clutch part work with addition of the equalizer conversion bracket but need new distributor and right gear. That said you REALLY need a 1 inch BL

Depending on lift you can run the 351W "van pan" with no issues. I'm 99% street with 2.5 SL and have no marks on my van pan

I went EFI on my W.....bought a van and used it all......Just went M%ODR2 and it has some pitfalls along the install way as well.....

Tim

 

[doubletrouble]

I’m wondering if I would have to get that equalizer conversion bracket if I go ax15 transmission swap too? Instead of keeping my 3 speed. Figured if I’m going new engine, might as well go new trans too. Spend more now, and regret less later. Haha, hopefully

 

[doubletrouble]

One half dozen another. Every swap will have some hurdles. If you go 351W you get around the whole balance issue and the stock clutch part work with addition of the equalizer conversion bracket but need new distributor and right gear. That said you REALLY need a 1 inch BL

Depending on lift you can run the 351W "van pan" with no issues. I'm 99% street with 2.5 SL and have no marks on my van pan

I went EFI on my W.....bought a van and used it all......Just went M%ODR2 and it has some pitfalls along the install way as well.....

Tim

351 was my go to swap, but I heard she makes it real tight in the engine bay. Which may not be fun when I add the a/c, efi, and p/s to it.

 

[Timmy390]

351 was my go to swap, but I heard she makes it real tight in the engine bay. Which may not be fun when I add the a/c, efi, and p/s to it.

The W is just a bit taller by an inch or just over. A 1 inch BL helps/fixes with firewall to head clearance. Most body pucks are pancaked so you have less room than stock now.....My 1 inch was more like 1.5 or 2 People on here run a carb'd W with stock hood with the right combo of parts.

Front dress room shouldn't change as the block is not longer.....I'm using the front dress off the van so it's TIGHT......

Tim

 

[doubletrouble]

The W is just a bit taller by an inch or just over. A 1 inch BL helps/fixes with firewall to head clearance. Most body pucks are pancaked so you have less room than stock now.....My 1 inch was more like 1.5 or 2 People on here run a carb'd W with stock hood with the right combo of parts.

Front dress room shouldn't change as the block is not longer.....I'm using the front dress off the van so it's TIGHT......

Tim

Hmmh what all was needed to do that swap? That was one of my ideas, and it still may be in the works. Being that it’s a flat tappet motor, it wouldn’t need all of the different things I’d need for a roller motor would I? What all did you have to add/change to make it work? Would my 3 speed bolt up, what about the brackets etc? I’m interested in seeing if this easier to build over the 302 roller.

 

[Timmy390]

I installed a roller. It was from a 96 E350 van. I went ford EFI so I didn't have to change anything but for wiring harness. That was the best thing about my swap. The van and 95 mustang EFI was just a few wires. I just converted to 95 Stang. The van was speed density stang is mas

I'm not 100% sure but the stock front dress should swap over ??? Post a thread asking about that. The roller cam don't have the fuel pump erratic so have to run electric. Need a distributor with right gear. I've seen the part number posted before.

Tim

 

[Broncobowsher]

AX15 uses the old bellhousing and clutch linkage, so you would still need a clutch bracket.

351 is different. The balance is the same as the old engine, but the bigger does other things. Exhaust is up and out, single exhaust needs a new crossover at a minmum. Headers may not fit. In general you are going to expect to need at least a little exhaust work.
The oil pan is different, the rear main seal is larger so the old oil pan won't clear the main bearing cap. Need a 351 specific oil pan and pickup.
The distributor bore in the block is slightly larger and the oil pump driveshaft is a size larger. No reusing the old distributor.
No reusing the old intake, the heads are further apart.
Since the heads are taller the accessory bolt holes are different. The brackets that attach the accessories to the waterpump and the other side goes to the head no longer line up. The make conversion spacers to fix that. Some of the late model 351 blocks don't have the clutch hole either.

The one big gain over the late 5.0 is there is no change to engine balance. But other than that many of the new to old engine differences still exist one the 351 just like the 5.0 engine.

The extra torque of the 351 does make it drive really nice.

 

[Speedrdr]

Personally, I’d go with a roller motor, not just since that’s what I’ve got, but it’s a heap easier (I think?) to get more HP.

Randy

 

[Broncobowsher]

Not just get more HP, but more usable and drivable power. You don't have to give up drivability to get it.