Latest Thoughts on Batteries?

[ntsqd]

Best of the best is solid state lithium, but they are spendy

I met a guy in '97 who had gotten caught in the vapor cloud of a Lithium battery bank in an EV gone bad. He was one physically screwed up person. I know very, very little of his story, but what I saw made me forever cautious. Be golly gosh darned careful with them things!

 

[Broncobowsher]

Best of the best is solid state lithium, but they are spendy

That and not readily available. Just saw the first electric vehicle hit the market this week using them, a motorcycle. Outside of that I only know of them in test labs. Never seen one (a real one anyway) in the wild.

Tonight I spent half an hour getting the boat running. The LiFePO4 starting battery did a great job cranking the boat over for way too long. Finally got it going. I'm going to put that battery on the charger. Don't feel like beating on the alternator this weekend to recover that much crank time. Really impressed with the crank time I got out of it. No way would I ever cook one under the hood. Maybe in a trunk mount in a fair weather garage queen street rod?

 

[73azbronco]

Forget about the battery.. buy the best and most accessible warranty because they are all junk now.

this, autozone, on every other corner in most every city in USA. Buy the one with 3 year warranty, take it back at 2 years, get another three years free

 

[duffymahoney]

I met a guy in '97 who had gotten caught in the vapor cloud of a Lithium battery bank in an EV gone bad. He was one physically screwed up person. I know very, very little of his story, but what I saw made me forever cautious. Be golly gosh darned careful with them things!

Solid state is a totally different battery.

Current lithium batteries have lots of issues, but so does gas. My neighbor died in a car crash from the gas catching fire in a classic bronco.

 

[duffymahoney]

That and not readily available. Just saw the first electric vehicle hit the market this week using them, a motorcycle. Outside of that I only know of them in test labs. Never seen one (a real one anyway) in the wild.

Tonight I spent half an hour getting the boat running. The LiFePO4 starting battery did a great job cranking the boat over for way too long. Finally got it going. I'm going to put that battery on the charger. Don't feel like beating on the alternator this weekend to recover that much crank time. Really impressed with the crank time I got out of it. No way would I ever cook one under the hood. Maybe in a trunk mount in a fair weather garage queen street rod?

You can buy them now, soon they will be the norm.

 

[ntsqd]

So almost twice the energy density of existing Li batteries, but according to Renogy they can only be replaced and not recycled. That's a serious downside that will have far reaching environmental consequences.

 

[duffymahoney]

So almost twice the energy density of existing Li batteries, but according to Renogy they can only be replaced and not recycled. That's a serious downside that will have far reaching environmental consequences.

Solid-state lithium batteries replace the liquid electrolyte in conventional batteries with a solid material, offering significantly higher energy density, faster charging, and improved safety. By using a solid separator, these batteries can employ lithium-metal anodes, allowing for thinner, lighter, and more durable energy storage.

Key Benefits:

• Safety: The solid electrolyte is non-flammable and stable, eliminating the risk of leakage and reducing fire risk.
• Higher Energy Density: Allows for more power in a smaller, lighter package, potentially doubling the range of EVs.
• Faster Charging & Longer Life:
  Solid-state batteries can potentially last for 15–20 years and support faster charging time

The ones I am looking at for my boat thruster design, have 3000 full cycles, which is bonkers.

Battery tech hopefully continues to get better and better.

According to ai, they can be recycled, but I guess that is 15 years from now problem. What would the environmental impact be on just having batteries last 20 years? Seems massive.

 

[ntsqd]

My opinion of batteries as a propulsion energy storage means really hasn't changed since '96 when I was first involved in an EV. When battery energy density exceeds that of liquid fuels, then I'll be interested in them as an energy source. Until then they're moderately OK for sorting out electric motor propulsion and optimizing them.

 

[Timmy390]

I would need 2 of these for my boat plus another smaller for cranking. 6K in batteries is insane. I can buy 30 AGM deep cycles for that price.
https://solidstatemarine.com/produc...8qLCbbAj8a3EYKO_cfRvvl8JAJJXqvZkaAqfoEALw_wcB

I don't see an ROI in them.

Now for smaller applications like game cameras and feeders, I run there
https://marcumtech.com/shop/lithium/brute/

Nothing but good things to day about them. The ROI is not using 24 AA batteries per cam per season at a cost of $40. Batteries pay for themselves in 2 years. This will be my 3rd year using them so ROI starts in September. And no, I can't run a solar charger. I hunt in the woods under thick tree canopy as in creek bottoms.

Tim

 

[duffymahoney]

My opinion of batteries as a propulsion energy storage means really hasn't changed since '96 when I was first involved in an EV. When battery energy density exceeds that of liquid fuels, then I'll be interested in them as an energy source. Until then they're moderately OK for sorting out electric motor propulsion and optimizing them.

I think once they can charge quick enough to be the same as filling up a tank of gas, i would switch.

The gmc trucks can 478 miles now on a charge. Which blows me away

I am going to use the 48v solid state for a unique marine install, not a propulsion

 

[duffymahoney]

I would need 2 of these for my boat plus another smaller for cranking. 6K in batteries is insane. I can buy 30 AGM deep cycles for that price.
https://solidstatemarine.com/produc...8qLCbbAj8a3EYKO_cfRvvl8JAJJXqvZkaAqfoEALw_wcB

I don't see an ROI in them.

Now for smaller applications like game cameras and feeders, I run there
https://marcumtech.com/shop/lithium/brute/

Nothing but good things to day about them. The ROI is not using 24 AA batteries per cam per season at a cost of $40. Batteries pay for themselves in 2 years. This will be my 3rd year using them so ROI starts in September. And no, I can't run a solar charger. I hunt in the woods under thick tree canopy as in creek bottoms.

Tim

I am doing a 48v system, so they are the best of the best.

I cannot fathom a boat needing 3 of those batteries! Unless it has a massive stereo.

 

[ntsqd]

I think once they can charge quick enough to be the same as filling up a tank of gas, i would switch.

The gmc trucks can 478 miles now on a charge. Which blows me away

I am going to use the 48v solid state for a unique marine install, not a propulsion

To charge that fast I suspect is going to be amperage that Joe Public has no business being around. Effectively the same as spilling a little gasoline would be instantly deadly.

 

[Timmy390]

I am doing a 48v system, so they are the best of the best.

I cannot fathom a boat needing 3 of those batteries! Unless it has a massive stereo.

24v trolling motor and separate starting.......3 batteries total. Currently have 2 of these https://www.samsclub.com/ip/Duracell-AGM-Deep-Cycle-Marine-and-RV-Battery-Group-Size-31/8399630001 plus the starting......

Tim

 

[Broncobowsher]

I would need 2 of these for my boat plus another smaller for cranking. 6K in batteries is insane. I can buy 30 AGM deep cycles for that price.
https://solidstatemarine.com/produc...8qLCbbAj8a3EYKO_cfRvvl8JAJJXqvZkaAqfoEALw_wcB

I don't see an ROI in them.

Now for smaller applications like game cameras and feeders, I run there
https://marcumtech.com/shop/lithium/brute/

Nothing but good things to day about them. The ROI is not using 24 AA batteries per cam per season at a cost of $40. Batteries pay for themselves in 2 years. This will be my 3rd year using them so ROI starts in September. And no, I can't run a solar charger. I hunt in the woods under thick tree canopy as in creek bottoms.

Tim

Considering they are 10x the price of current LiFePO4 batteries. I'll pass for now.

 

[ba123]

Deka Intimidator is a fantastic battery and I have one as my spare and if I started over, I'd probably just get that from the start.

I've had one in my Raptor pickup for 4 years or so and it's been flawless even when it sits.

BTW, look on Rockauto as I got my spare Bronco one there super cheap!

The dual terminal one for only $175!

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8937032&cc=0&pt=2476

And that's why I got a spare.

 

[Grey owl]

Sorry to open up Pandora's Box, but its been about 16 years since my last battery purchase. AGMs are cheaper, brands have gone in and out of favor, heck, lithium is now an option. Anything interesting to look into?

16 years!!! I would by the same one you took out. Six years has been my experience. My 2022 Dodge truck took one after s year, it was.on warranty. My 2019 mustang battery died in February and my 2019 Lincoln battery died in March. I bought Princess Auto batteries similar to your Auto zone.

 

[Kalex]

I’ve had an optima blue top going strong for 9 years. If I remember correctly it’s a deep cycle as well. I think some of it is just luck of the draw.

 

[Steve83]

Best of the best is solid state lithium...

...but it doesn't exist. So that puts it among the worst. So does the fact that it can't be mass-produced reliably with any guarantee of durability or longevity due to dendrites, cracking, & thermal separation.

Experimental things that don't work in these trucks aren't very relevant to the discussion.

 

[ntsqd]

Some of it is a well designed regulator that takes care of the battery. I've made the mods necessary to use a Balmar ARS-5 with the 130A 4G alternator on the FSB. I just need to do the actual install.

 

[jbawall]

Deka Intimidator is a fantastic battery and I have one as my spare and if I started over, I'd probably just get that from the start.

I've had one in my Raptor pickup for 4 years or so and it's been flawless even when it sits.

BTW, look on Rockauto as I got my spare Bronco one there super cheap!

The dual terminal one for only $175!

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8937032&cc=0&pt=2476

And that's why I got a spare.

And shipping is only $20, that seems like a fantastic deal. I may be pulling the trigger on this one.