Longer wheel studs for 1/4 wheel spacers

[Timmy390]

I'm kind of in the middle of upgrading to new rims (already bought) and tires (plan to buy next month) and I may need to run 1/4 inch wheel spacers up front. I don't think I need to (I've already test fit the rims) but 1/4 inch spacers will widen things just a bit.

I've done some reading and searching on this subject and just need opinions and or conformation what I've found will work. Open to suggestions as always.

Wheels are Method NV305's 17X8.5 5x5.5 4.75 back spacing.
Tires are going to be 285x70's

I'm running disc brakes on my 74. Everything is 79 Bronco including the current wheel studs.

Current 79 wheels studs
Part # 610-219 Line: DOR
Thread Size: 1/2-20 Inch
Knurl Diameter (In): 0.625 Inch
Length (In): 2 Inch
Shoulder Length (In): 0.906 Inch
Material: Steel
Quick-Start Nose: No
Thread Handing: Right Hand

Wheel studs I found the I hope will get me the extra 1/4 inch
80's F250 and F350
Part # 610-277 Line: DOR
Thread Size: 1/2-20 Inch
Knurl Diameter (In): 0.625 Inch
Length (In): 2-1/4 Inch
Shoulder Length (In): 0.938 Inch
Material: Steel
Quick-Start Nose: Yes Summit lists them as No
Thread Handing: Right Hand
Type: Serrated Stud
Under Head Length (In): 2.25 Inch

Anyone using these? Worried the "quick start nose" is the extra 1/4 inch of the bolt.

Tim

 

[Apogee]

The 610-277 does have a bulleted nose, whereas the 610-219 does not, so you probably won't gain anything.

Could you use an extended shank lug nut like one of these?



Regards,
Tobin

 

[Timmy390]

Bought these lugs already
https://www.4wheelparts.com/Wheels/....aspx?t_c=11&t_s=107&t_pt=3679&t_pn=PXA21184B

Why is nothing simple.

Am I the only one running 1/4 spacers in the front? What's everyone else doing? Using the Lugs Apogee posted?

Tim

 

[DirtDonk]

I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people using 1/4" spacers never even got longer studs.

Probably why you don't hear much about the search for just the right one.
But haven't heard a lot of the discussions talk about the newer style wheels you're planning either. Some wheels are so thin (think steelies) that maybe they felt that 1/4" wasn't enough to worry about.

Just a guess of course. But the part about most not sourcing a more appropriate stud is probably going to hold true for the most part.

Paul

 

[Timmy390]

Good point about the thickness of the rims.

Found a post by Surfer-b where he had some longer studs made at a machine shop......interesting idea.

Guess I'm looking for a unicorn.....

I'm still going to search around. I need to order the spacers and then mount everything up and see how much stud I have to work with.

How many threads do you need engaged to match the tensile strength of the studs?

Tim

 

[Justafordguy]

I run 1/4 spacers with the stock 77 studs and M/T Classic lock wheels. I've never had any issue. I think as long as you have at least a 1/2" of threads you will be fine.

 

[Timmy390]

My rims have counter sunk lug holes. Placing the lug nut in the hole and measuring the rim thickness I get .425 of an inch. Add in the .250 of the spacer and you get .675 (call it 11/16).

I need to go pull a wheel off and see how much stud I have sticking through the rotor/hub.

Tim

 

[DirtDonk]

On open ended lug nuts, my practice has always been to have at least 2 full threads showing on the outside of the nut. Other than that, I've always wanted to have a couple of threads more than the diameter of the stud.
So in that scenario, with a 1/2" stud you'd want that 1/2 inch plus a couple of threads (maybe a bit more than a 1/16" or so?

Can't always achieve that of course, and I know there are generally accepted rules for just how much, but I can't quote them. Someone will know, but at least the 1/2" you guys are talking about sounds a reasonable minimum.

We are talking some decent torque after all. What, 65lbs on our wheels maybe? Up to about 85lbs perhaps?
I know my more modern cars are 105lbs for the big metric studs, but I can't remember the exact rating on the older stuff.
But since I can't put the hurt on a 1/2" ratchet handle like I used to be able to, I'm way more likely to use a torque wrench nowadays. To keep things consistent and tight.

Paul

 

[Apogee]

Technically, you want 8 full turns of thread engagement, at which point the threads are as strong as the minimum tensile strength of the stud. That said, the first thread or two are not required to be a full thread form per certain thread standards, so I use 10 turns as my baseline for most automotive/truck applications. With a 1/2-20 studs, this equates to 1/2" of thread engagement, which matches Justafordguy's recommendation.

 

[Timmy390]

So I have 1.100 of stud to work with....measured form flush at the hub to end of threads.

With the wheel in place (not torqued just hand snug). The best I can measure (I'm rounding down), I have .700 of an inch of stud to engaged. subtract the .250 thick spacers and I'm left with .450 of an inch in stud before torquing.

So per Apogee baseline, I'm .050 of an inch short before torquing everything down.

Danger Will Robinson Or good enough for Government work.....

Tim

 

[DirtDonk]

Of course it's not good enough for gov't work, you bubble headed booby!
Now, if could just sound like Jonathan Harris (pompous windbag!), you'd be in stitches at the computer.

Actually, not sure I'd worry about that .050" in the short term, but for a long and happy life with the Bronco, especially if it's used for both freeway running and off-roading, I'd probably try to squeak some extra length in there, or not use the spacers.

In fact, back to the need for them, if you need them to clear the tie-rods or something, that's fine. But if you don't need them and only want to gain a little "look" of a wider stance, then at only 1/4" and a need of very low importance, I'd just leave them off and be done with it.

But that's just me flailing my hooks and corrugated arm covers all over the place with lights flashing all over my chest plate. My side radar dishes would be spinning too, but they got burned out in the last exciting episode!

Paul

 

[Timmy390]

But that's just me flailing my hooks and corrugated arm covers all over the place with lights flashing all over my chest plate. My side radar dishes would be spinning too, but they got burned out in the last exciting episode!

Paul

NICE........very nice

I like to think I'm off-road.....but lets face it, I never go off-road. I do pound the streets with an off-road look.

Everything clears so don't need them to clear the tie-rods or anything. I have between 3/8 and 1/2 clearance rim to tie rod. Now if these were 16's rather than 17's......whole different ball game.....

Trying to duplicate a look........it was noted that 1/4 inch spacers were used up front and 1 1/4 in the rear to "even the track"

Tim

 

[DirtDonk]

According to magazine articles of the day, and the advertising brochures at the time too, the track width varied from year to year, with only a few being the same in consecutive years.
The problem is knowing whether to believe them all or not.
Best bet might be to actually measure yours. Unless you have already? Or you can tell by the look and are wanting to get them out no matter what?

And if the track was different, it was probably to enhance turning, or return-to-center, or something along those lines.
But if it takes an extra 1/2" per side to get the look, then if you find any negatives from the spacers you can probably get past them. But you've been around your Bronco long enough that you'd probably feel it if anything changed, or was made worse by the changes.

What about having someone machine a set of 1.250" spacers down to 1.0" instead?
Cost would be prohibitive compared to spacers or new studs, but if you can do it yourself, or know someone that can do it on the cheap, that might be the best of both worlds.

Paul

 

[surfer-b]

Found a post by Surfer-b where he had some longer studs made at a machine shop......interesting idea

yep and Im still running them, I haven't looked lately but I guess there are still none available for the front, the rear seems to be no prob if I remember correctly

 

[surfer-b]

Trying to duplicate a look........it was noted that 1/4 inch spacers were used up front and 1 1/4 in the rear to "even the track"

am I reading this right, they added .250" in front and 1.250" in rear to even track, I can see maybe .500~.750" but not a full 1", something doesn't sound right about that. I know both of mine are really close to same track width if not the same, if there is a difference its maybe .250". I'm sure the owner knows what he sees, it just seems odd there is that much diff between the front an back track widths

 

[jmangi62]

You know, I have to plead ignorance on this one. We put 1 1/2" billet spacers on my rig and never gave it a second thought lol. The reason I did this was so I could use the JK Tires and wheels off my boys rig, which he sold, he gave me the tires and wheels, 35" Toyos on 17X9s, nothing fancy but they fit great. I got really lucky with this one. ;D

 

[Timmy390]

yep and Im still running them, I haven't looked lately but I guess there are still none available for the front, the rear seems to be no prob if I remember correctly

I sure can't find any for the front and I've been looking.......Your having them made screams "profit" to me......I bet you could sell a few sets....

I guess I'll shelve this till I buy tires (not looking forward to that hit in the wallet) and do some measuring with everything in place. just trying to have ducks in a row is I need to run spacers. Plan is to buy tires next month.....working on a budget here......

Tim

 

[Timmy390]

am I reading this right, they added .250" in front and 1.250" in rear to even track, I can see maybe .500~.750" but not a full 1", something doesn't sound right about that. I know both of mine are really close to same track width if not the same, if there is a difference its maybe .250". I'm sure the owner knows what he sees, it just seems odd there is that much diff between the front an back track widths

My track front to back is visibly off. Wider in the front. Stock axle housings front and back. It's an inch or more to the eye but I've never measured it.
Maybe 74 thing?

I'll get it all mounted up (without spacers) and follow up. I think an even track looks better but I've lived with it for 20 plus years so it don't have to change.

Tim

 

[Rustytruck]

Here is a copy of Dormans catalog. might want to look at section 10, page 147, part 610-441

https://www.dormanproducts.com/flipbook/dorman/automotive-hardware/2006-Automotive-Hardware.pdf

 

[Timmy390]

Here is a copy of Dormans catalog. might want to look at section 10, page 147, part 610-441

https://www.dormanproducts.com/flipbook/dorman/automotive-hardware/2006-Automotive-Hardware.pdf

The Knurl Diameter on those is just off but would prob work. The issue with those and so many others I've found is the "shoulder length" and the Knurl position. Those are designed for axles without rotors. The stud for disc's has to have a shoulder and Knurl that mates the rotor and hub together else they would work. Part # 610-441 left and Part # 610-219 right

Tim