Low budget head for my 347 stroker

[broncnaz]

I dont know it sounds like your buying parts without knowing what you really need. what rocker studs did you buy? you current pushrods sound like they are a little short but they are within about .050 of what stock 289/302 use.

 

[barronj]

Ok, today I finally got the new studs and poly-nuts on order. So that bring the price on this fix to about $580 now. Which in retrospect is pretty disappointing. I think I have thrown about $1800 at this motor since it was rebuilt last year (msd, card stuff, o2 sensor, electronic ignition, new alternator for 95 mustang, more msd stuff, and more carb stuff). I hope this girl decides she finally got what wanted. Because not happy by Monday of next week she's going to the junk yard and I'm going back to riding the bike.

I will be happy when she is happy, but I will also be be pissed if it turn out it was the cam all along.

Whoa whoa whoa! Why are you buying new studs & poly locks? Return that stuff immediately.

If you buy studs, you'll also need new rockers (stud mount rockers & pedestal mount rockers are not the same). If you install studs, guide plates need to go between the stud & the head, and guide plates will necessitate hardened pushrods. Studs are not just going to screw in- you have to drill & tap for them, and since the holes have to be in exact spots to work with the guideplates* (adjustable guideplates are made, but a pain in the ass to work with), you're looking at having the machine shop do it.

Broncnaz said it already. You can't throw new parts at a problem until you know why it was broken to begin with. Don't you know anyone with any mechanical sense?

Do yourself a favor, start retreating back to stock parts. I know you can't get a used stock cam (it's solid, not hydraulic roller, right?), but just keep it as simple as possible!

 

[apachetech]

Whoever built your engine should be shot and find a different line of work! if you had it professionally built a year ago, they should be telling what is wrong with it and also be helping you out!

 

[Rkilpatrickii]

He was a Mopar man, long story...

Anyways, the Army decided I could better serve my county if they moved me from Fort Drum NY (after 9yrs) to Fort Irwin California.

The truck did run fairly good when I was at 75' above sea level, w/93 Octane (it just pinged a little, at low RPMs, going up hill); now I am at 6,000' w/ only 91 Octane.

 

[hucklburry rev2]

I don't think you should have or be changing any parts, I think you have a timing issue that needs resolved.

 

[73azbronco]

Are U at NTC right now? Have you tried calling the MWR auto hobby shop? They most likely have all the tools you need.

 

[Rkilpatrickii]

Before i get started i did make sure i did get a money back guarantee (good for one year)
Ok,
I have the original 289 heads stock, w/ brand new rocker Arms, they had studs (7/16-20)

I have GT40 heads stock from 96 Ford
Explorer, with pedestal style rocker
Arms, with 3/8-16 bolts

I was going to have the GT40 heads bored and tapped for new studs that were direct replacement of the studs on the 289 heads. That way the GT40 heads would have rocker arms on them that are exact same hight on the push-rods, and l already know the valves where the say hight when i had them on the bench. So I don't know why this won't work.

Now, The direct replacement studs for the Mark V are, 7/16-20 on the top, and 3/8-16 on the bottom. The only difference is that they are .30" shorter (never used the top 3/8" of the studs anyways.) I would have gotten the guide plates but u only need guide plates for roller rockers (some other day.)

At this point in the game, I feel like I have everyone in the world telling me what is wrong with the truck but no one has any real solutions. bcm69 has made the most since so far. 9* advance is way to much. (I did ask in the forum several times, "which is better, longer push-rods or bore, tap, w/ new studs)

And lastly, if I could afford a mechanic that knew what he was doing, I would leave it with him until i was fully satisfied. But with a new baby...

 

[Rkilpatrickii]

I have used the auto craft here on post many times (change brakes, tire balancing) But I have been doing all my own work on this thing for so many years now, I usually only go up there to see if anyone knows what the heck I am talking about. Coming from Fort Drum this is the worst autocraft center I have ever seen. Don't get me wrong though, I would hate to see us loose what little we do have. Do u know they gave the paint booth to the Firestone Store for storage and almost none of the tools u would need to rebuild an engine. And I checked, they don't have push-rod gages.

 

[Rkilpatrickii]

Sorry I am a little grumpy today, I really hate this place. I live in a dessert and I am broke all the time. So I really can't afford to go anywhere else.

GOD, send me back to war.

 

[John Marinan]

Are you absolutely sure that the firing order is correct. It sounds like you are, but I had the same exact problem on a Chevy boat engine, it was the firing order.

 

[Rkilpatrickii]

Yes,
lunati only sales 1 H.O cam

And since ford only ever used two firing orders (as far as i know) on this type of motor... Anyways the cam was supposed to be advanced 5* not 9*

So I'll let's you all know what happens after I get it back together on Friday.

 

[broncnaz]

I have the original 289 heads stock, w/ brand new rocker Arms, they had studs (7/16-20)
stock 289 heads dont have 7/16 studs
I have GT40 heads stock from 96 Ford
Explorer, with pedestal style rocker
Arms, with 3/8-16 bolts
Gt40 and all other pedestal mount rockers use 5/16" bolts

I was going to have the GT40 heads bored and tapped for new studs that were direct replacement of the studs on the 289 heads. That way the GT40 heads would have rocker arms on them that are exact same hight on the push-rods, and l already know the valves where the say hight when i had them on the bench. So I don't know why this won't work.
Not going to say it wont work but the whole reason for installing studs is to gain adjustabilty and with adjustable type rocker arms guide plates and hardened pushrods are needed. Now if you have whats called rail rocker arms well they are not well suited for adjustable setups. you may get interferance with the valve retainers and could actually drop a valve with high lift cams. Usually when installing studs in pedestal heads you have to get the pedastal mounts machined down I want to say .320 or so. It doesnt matter if you have adjustable rockers or not valve train geometery is controlled by the pushord lenght. If your pushrod is to short or long then you will side load the valves and cause excessive wear and may also endup bending pushrods and or collasping lifters or wearing down a cam lobe due to the extra leverage/friction involved

Now, The direct replacement studs for the Mark V are, 7/16-20 on the top, and 3/8-16 on the bottom. The only difference is that they are .30" shorter (never used the top 3/8" of the studs anyways.) I would have gotten the guide plates but u only need guide plates for roller rockers (some other day.)
Not sure what your talking about here with the mark V must have missed that somewhere. but guide plates are not only for roller rockers. they are for adjustable rockers period. unless your heads have slotted pushrod holes as HiPo 289 heads did have. but you still need hardened pushrods.

At this point in the game, I feel like I have everyone in the world telling me what is wrong with the truck but no one has any real solutions. bcm69 has made the most since so far. 9* advance is way to much. (I did ask in the forum several times, "which is better, longer push-rods or bore, tap, w/ new studs)
I can appreciate your frustrations but I dont think you are really listening to what people are suggesting. While you have asked questions you need to actually check out the suggestions before you just run off and buy parts to throw at the issue. There is almost always more than one single answer and there is not nessearily a which is better when you main problem seems to be pushrod lenght.
And lastly, if I could afford a mechanic that knew what he was doing, I would leave it with him until i was fully satisfied. But with a new baby...

You may want to put out feelers for a fellow bronco owner that has some engine experiance in your area. They may be able to helpp you understand some of what you are being told here. Really not trying to bag on you at all but trying to make you understand some of the ins and outs.

 

[Rkilpatrickii]

broncnaz, U r correct on all accounts.

And the studs that came in on thursday where the wrong ones. As soon as I opened the box I knew I had made a mistake.

At this point I just want to get the old girl running again...

1. I am hopping that by fixing the cam advance, this motor is going to wake up and really run.

2. I have the top end apart, all new high performance gaskets, and a set of GT40 heads setting on the garage floor.

Now I could have just put the old heads back on yesterday, but I really wanted to use the GT40 head since they were already payed for. So instead of ordering the pr gauge and delaying the rebuild a couple more weeks, I took a chance and drove down to San Bernardino and purchased a set of the longest and most common size (as near as i can tell) pushrods that came in the 5.0/255-302. I put them in last night and started to put the motor back together w/ the GT40 heads. As far as I can tell the pushrods were a perfect fit.

I apologize that my frustration is showing here. I had a dream of building this awesome truck, and after dropping probably $30,000.00 over the last five years I am stuck with this old rusted-out truck that doesn't want to run. I need to be able to drive this truck to work some days. And now after my wife decided we need another child to show others how great our love was. My budget is extremely tight. My wife wants me to sell the old girl and buy another car or fix my motorcycle that needs a new head and has it's own set of problems. Plus I can't hall all my Army gear around in it.

Well tomorrow we'll know... Today I have Staff Duty and will be sitting at a desk trying to stay awake for the next 24 hrs, hoping nothing happens.

 

[Rkilpatrickii]

Thank to everyone for you input. I always invite all of your comments, good or bad. I am always learning something new from it.

 

[bmc69]

Thank to everyone for you input. I always invite all of your comments, good or bad. I am always learning something new from it.

Good luck..I do hope you get it right..

 

[Rkilpatrickii]

Holy sh!#, Holy sh!#,

I just came back from my fist test drive. Oh my word... bcm69 if you were here right now I would kiss you. If you were a girl I would send u love letters and a dozen roses.

Wow, I have so much more power... I just touch the gas and she goes. First thing starting out, just going up the street @ 15 mph was so much smoother. Them going 35 mph, I put her in 4th gear and she didn't struggle at all. Then @ 55, going up hill, she just purred right up. And then we went down hill and crused; she got so quiet all I could hear was the wend. I would have never thought it would ever be possible for the old girl to run like that. I can't wait to take it out on the highway and do 80 mph. Or I could even take it off-roading now.

Well she is running a little rich now, I'm going to have to put some lighter spring in the carb as soon as I can. As far as the distributor goes... I'm not touching it. Now I can finally go back to building an ecu to go fuel injected.

I bet she gets a lot better than 10mpg now. Only if the cam would have been install the right way before I drove all the way from NY to CA. I wouldn't have broke down in KS. I would have reported to Ft Irwin on time, not 7 days later. And I would have saved at least 2 grand in parts, labor, and gas. (I couldn't go over 55-60 mph after I passed Indiana or she would start to lug down and die.)

Wow, thanks to everyone for your help and input. I started out thinking I needed a new set of heads, and I ended up getting a lot more.

If u live in CA, I hope we can link up some time.

 

[Rkilpatrickii]

To bad I never did figured out how to read that damn cam card...

After I purchaed the GT40 heads I didn't have the money to buy the tools for it anyways.

 

[73azbronco]

so what fixed the problem? Good to hear. And I recommend not going 80 in an EB.

 

[Rkilpatrickii]

It was the cam.

After all the things I have done to old girl to get her to handle good on the NY snow covered highways, she will fair much better @ 80 on the highway, than I will going 10 across the dessert. I beleave I am going to change out some of my shocks before can go off roading here. And if that makes her a little to loose, I will add a sway-bar to the front end this time.

 

[barronj]

It was the cam.

I would look to Lunati to see if this cam is supposed to be stabbed straight up & down, or if it's designed to be advanced. (I bought a lunati blower cam once, at a swap meet, installed it in my '93 notchback mustang, 302 w/ AFR 185's, Holley systemax intake & Vortech V-1 @ 14#- it was a turd 'til 4K, then it came ALIVE. Turns out the cam needed to be installed w/ 4* advance)
.

Just like you, I chased all kinds of leads to find out what could be wrong. Everyone thought the distributor was a tooth off, or the MSD BTM (boost/timing retard)... Sure glad to hear it's fixed now!