M5OD swap clutch not working

[John_parkeriv]

After installing my M5OD trans a while back, I've been fiddling around with the rest of my rig getting ready to run it around my property for the first time with the new drivetrain. Engine fires right up, no weird squeaks, nothing. Go to throw it in reverse, just grinding. Tried 1st, same thing. I had a friend press in the clutch pedal while I was under the truck and I can see the throw out bearing pressing into the pressure plate, the clutch just doesn't seem to be engaging.

Most of the parts for my transmission are from the '96 F150 the trans came from: clutch plate, clutch, TOB, master cylinder. The only part that isn't was the flywheel that came with my engine from an '87 F150.

I've heard these TOB's are hard to bleed, but I've bled it about 4 times and the pedal seems solid. Any idea's as to why it's not engaging?

 

[DirtDonk]

I think you mean disengaging. It sounds like the clutch is remaining fully engaged and is not disengaging.
Just to be sure though, can you shift into different gears while the engine is off?

 

[John_parkeriv]

I think you mean disengaging. It sounds like the clutch is remaining fully engaged and is not disengaging.
Just to be sure though, can you shift into different gears while the engine is off?

Yes, the trans shifts fine while the engine is off. I also spun the input shaft in every gear when the transmission was out to make sure they're all good.

 

[Oldtimer]

Will it start, with it in gear, and clutch pedal depressed?
May be enough travel to allow disc to slip between clutch and fly wheel, but not enough travel for disc to stop spinning input shaft when in neutral.

 

[DirtDonk]

Good call. Maybe it’s just slightly out of adjustment.
That is if there really is any kind of adjustment with these? How do you set the FreePlay on one of these hydraulic setups?

 

[John_parkeriv]

Will it start, with it in gear, and clutch pedal depressed?
May be enough travel to allow disc to slip between clutch and fly wheel, but not enough travel for disc to stop spinning input shaft when in neutral.

It will crank over in gear, but with the clutch pedal fully on the floor it will still start rolling.

 

[Timmy390]

Good call. Maybe it’s just slightly out of adjustment.
That is if there really is any kind of adjustment with these? How do you set the FreePlay on one of these hydraulic setups?

There is no adjustment. The slave cylinder is spring loaded and the throw out bearing rides on the finders of the pressure place and spins all the time.

I found this system to be VERY hard to bleed. I couldn't get any clutch movement at first. Then got some and then more and more and more as I pumped and pumped and pumped. Never seen anything like it.

Tim

 

[John_parkeriv]

There is no adjustment. The slave cylinder is spring loaded and the throw out bearing rides on the finders of the pressure place and spins all the time.

I found this system to be VERY hard to bleed. I couldn't get any clutch movement at first. Then got some and then more and more and more as I pumped and pumped and pumped. Never seen anything like it.

Tim

How did you end up bleeding yours? I tried the method of using a small vacuum in the master cylinder. It's worked enough to get the slave cylindermoving, but there might be some air left.

 

[Timmy390]

How did you end up bleeding yours? I tried the method of using a small vacuum in the master cylinder. It's worked enough to get the slave cylindermoving, but there might be some air left.

I had no luck with a vacuum pump either......I even bench bleed mine before install. I ended up taking the cap off the master and having my daughter watch and call out BUBBLE....BUBBLE as I pumped the peddle very slowly. That method got lots of air out but not all. I then found that just slightly engaging the master would let air out. I kind of just did a dance just tap tap tap tap in rapped sessions till no more air...then came back the next day.....same thing....more air........the clutch just kept getting stiffer and stiffer and feeling better and better........Once there was no more air...topped it off and it's been great.....

I had two different masters and they both had to be bleed as I described before the clutch would work.

Tim

 

[wizard12]

How did you end up bleeding yours? I tried the method of using a small vacuum in the master cylinder. It's worked enough to get the slave cylindermoving, but there might be some air left.

I had a hard time getting mine bled as well. Found a video somewhere of a different method. Have a buddy pump the clutch peddle 20 times really fast. On the 21st time be underneath and let the bleeder open. Did this a couple of times and it seemed to really help. Not sure if it was luck or not, but thought I would mention it.

 

[1969miller]

Best way I've done it on my rangers is you need to removed the master cylinder and hydraulic line, bleed on a bench, reinstall, then gravity bleed the slave.

 

[Big Slim]

looking at another variable, did you get your pedal ratio correct? is there enough travel in the master to push the slave fully?

 

[Broncobowsher]

Are you sure the disk went in correct. There is an engine side and a pressure plate side. They can bind up if installed backwards.

I also recall there are 2 sizes of master/slaves (maybe this is for the ZF instead?)
Small bore master with a large bore slave may not have enough travel, like having the pedal ratio off. You might be getting a little movement, but not enough movement.

 

[76Broncofromhell]

Are you sure the disk went in correct. There is an engine side and a pressure plate side. They can bind up if installed backwards.

I also recall there are 2 sizes of master/slaves (maybe this is for the ZF instead?)
Small bore master with a large bore slave may not have enough travel, like having the pedal ratio off. You might be getting a little movement, but not enough movement.

ZFs work well with a 3/4 Master cylinder - the M5R2 uses the same slave IIRC, I would venture a guess that the master cylinder has an internal bypass and that is causing your problem. You should be using a diaphragm pressure plate with that application.

 

[John_parkeriv]

Are you sure the disk went in correct. There is an engine side and a pressure plate side. They can bind up if installed backwards.

I also recall there are 2 sizes of master/slaves (maybe this is for the ZF instead?)
Small bore master with a large bore slave may not have enough travel, like having the pedal ratio off. You might be getting a little movement, but not enough movement.

I got the master cylinder that matched the vin of the truck my transmission came out of

 

[Yeller]

When I was doing them for a living the best method I came up with that worked every time was to remove the master cylinder cap, take an old school oil can with a pump, use a new or sterile clean one, fill it with brake fluid and connect it to the bleeder on the slave. pump fluid up from the bottom, let the master overflow and make a mess. Put the cap back on and rinse with water to neutralize the brake fluid so it won’t eat your paint. If it doesn’t work repeat.

Tried bench bleeding, using vacuum on the top and bottom, this always worked, when your paid by the job and not by the hour you figure this stuff out lol.

 

[bmc69]

I had no luck with a vacuum pump either......I even bench bleed mine before install. I ended up taking the cap off the master and having my daughter watch and call out BUBBLE....BUBBLE as I pumped the peddle very slowly. That method got lots of air out but not all. I then found that just slightly engaging the master would let air out. I kind of just did a dance just tap tap tap tap in rapped sessions till no more air...then came back the next day.....same thing....more air........the clutch just kept getting stiffer and stiffer and feeling better and better........Once there was no more air...topped it off and it's been great.....

I had two different masters and they both had to be bleed as I described before the clutch would work.

Tim

Same deal with bleeding the clutch on my brother's F350 with a ZF. I thought we'd never get all the air out.