New Power steering pump - which is the best?

[Thaddeusrex]

Opinion time! I need a new power steering box for my ‘72 frame-up build. It was originally a 302 (now 347), with power steering.

I want 3-4 turns lock to lock. Driving ease and quality is everything for this build, which will be 99% spirited street driving with a lot of freeway speeds for 5-10 miles at a time (I live in SF bay area). So a couple hundred $ either way doesn’t matter to me, I want new, and I want the best for drive comfort and fun. I’ve looked online, and it seems like Borgeson, Delphi, Tom’s, and Wild Horses are the main games in town, but it’s hard to tell who makes what. Are Tom’s and Wild Horses actually Borgeson units? They look basically the same. Which is the best quality and performance in your opinion?

BTW, I’m building a full Duff steering front end, including T-rex arms, all links, springs, and MS2020 shocks.

lastly, should I reuse the old pump? I believe it works, but haven’t seen it in action. I don’t know how big of a factor wear and noise is with those things.

 

[1969]

The Borgeson box is a 4 turn box I believe, and paired with a Saginaw pump should work like you are asking for. This is the setup I have on my Bronco but haven’t driven it yet.

 

[Thaddeusrex]

The Borgeson box is a 4 turn box I believe, and paired with a Saginaw pump should work like you are asking for. This is the setup I have on my Bronco but haven’t driven it yet.

Did you buy directly from borgeson?

 

[Jdgephar]

I got mine from CJ Pony parts. No complaints so far, but I haven't driven many miles on it. You will need an updated steering u-joint.

https://www.cjponyparts.com/borgeso...Zcevkd27KvIPRsCz9af_rMMdlyft1gahoCTY0QAvD_BwE

A saginaw pump may be in my future, but the worn out stock one works (barely) for now.

The one from Toms offroad uses the same steering input size as the stock column (13/16")

 

[1969]

Did you buy directly from borgeson?

I believe I got mine through Summit Racing.

 

[jamesroney]

Opinion time! I need a new power steering box for my ‘72 frame-up build. It was originally a 302 (now 347), with power steering.

I want 3-4 turns lock to lock. Driving ease and quality is everything for this build, which will be 99% spirited street driving with a lot of freeway speeds for 5-10 miles at a time (I live in SF bay area). So a couple hundred $ either way doesn’t matter to me, I want new, and I want the best for drive comfort and fun. I’ve looked online, and it seems like Borgeson, Delphi, Tom’s, and Wild Horses are the main games in town, but it’s hard to tell who makes what. Are Tom’s and Wild Horses actually Borgeson units? They look basically the same. Which is the best quality and performance in your opinion?

BTW, I’m building a full Duff steering front end, including T-rex arms, all links, springs, and MS2020 shocks.

lastly, should I reuse the old pump? I believe it works, but haven’t seen it in action. I don’t know how big of a factor wear and noise is with those things.

It all depends on what's important to you.

If you want a piece of junk that is guaranteed to be obsolete, and un-serviceable in 20 years...the aftermarket boxes are a bargain.
If you want a box that will bolt in using all factory hardware, and not require any welding, clamping, drilling, or modifications, then the factory 76-77 box with a 73-75 column is the way to go.

I often get people asking me to work on their stuff, and then you have to play detective for hours trying to figure out who installed what part on where. The Nissan box, Delphi box, borgeson box, Scout box, and 4x4x2 box are NOT BETTER than the factory saginaw box. They are just more available right now.

No steering box will make your Bronco steer better if you don't fix the caster problem.

You say you have a 72, but power steering was not available until after September of 72 in the 73 model year. So do you have the 73 style inner apron? Post a pic of the steering box that you have, and I can tell.

As far as the original PS pump, if it is a factory ford Thompson pump then it is no good. The are all no good. Even the good ones are no good. Wild Horses has an excellent p-pump saginaw replacement that bolts right on.

I've got a 4 turn factory Bronco box that is rebuilt, and I let @Oldtimer borrow it last year. If you wan to bolt it on and try it...you can do that. I'm in Fremont.

 

[SteveL]

If you want the best/strongest box for an eb get a 4x4x2 box from a reputable builder and a Saginaw pump. It does require an adapter plate. Bcbroncos was the original maker of the swap but others may sell the adapter plate. for a box west Texas off road or lees power steering come to mind

 

[dmoses42]

You could also send your steering gear to one of the well known power steering companies and have yours built to suit. Check with Blue Top, Red Head, Lee's, West Texas Offroad (my understanding is they do Bronco boxes but they aren't on their website), or PSC. There may be more that I can't remember, and I know from when I was searching that there are reputable rebuilders in California that some on here have used. Plenty of people on here with opinions of these companies, if you decide to go that route.

 

[Thaddeusrex]

It all depends on what's important to you.

If you want a piece of junk that is guaranteed to be obsolete, and un-serviceable in 20 years...the aftermarket boxes are a bargain.
If you want a box that will bolt in using all factory hardware, and not require any welding, clamping, drilling, or modifications, then the factory 76-77 box with a 73-75 column is the way to go.

I often get people asking me to work on their stuff, and then you have to play detective for hours trying to figure out who installed what part on where. The Nissan box, Delphi box, borgeson box, Scout box, and 4x4x2 box are NOT BETTER than the factory saginaw box. They are just more available right now.

No steering box will make your Bronco steer better if you don't fix the caster problem.

You say you have a 72, but power steering was not available until after September of 72 in the 73 model year. So do you have the 73 style inner apron? Post a pic of the steering box that you have, and I can tell.

As far as the original PS pump, if it is a factory ford Thompson pump then it is no good. The are all no good. Even the good ones are no good. Wild Horses has an excellent p-pump saginaw replacement that bolts right on.

I've got a 4 turn factory Bronco box that is rebuilt, and I let @Oldtimer borrow it last year. If you wan to bolt it on and try it...you can do that. I'm in Fremont.

i guess what is most important is responsiveness and driveability. I’d love quality too of course, but not if it’s a clunky box. I’d rather have something that’s fun to drive, and replace it every 10 years. Not my normal MO, but I learned my lesson with my ‘65 Mustang restoration. It needs to be inviting to hop into.

Hopefully I’ve got the caster handled with the Duff T-rex arms, and 7° bushings .

it was built 3/30/72, so yeah, power steering was added. I was hoping it was 4 turn, but nope, it’s 6, so it’s gotta go. I’ll try to post a pic here. Dunno how.

i just decoded the pump, and it’s from an ‘85 Mustang. Ford codes. Can’t see any other maker mark on it. I’ll try for pics of that too.

I’d love to try your pump, awesome offer, but my truck is in 10,000 pieces right now. It’s just a frame that I’m building ground-up, so it’ll be a while. Thanks tho!

OK, the pic button asks for an http:? No idea what to do with that. They’re on my phone.

 

[Thaddeusrex]

OK, figured pics out. Joined.

 

[ntsqd]

The turns of the box is set by the worm and sector gear. I'd talk to one of the premier PS companies and ask them about converting your box to a 4 turn box. My own favorite is Lee Power Steering in Santa Clarita, CA.

We just had some discussion about PS pumps somewhere around here. I'd look for it if you want to make a more informed decision. Otherwise go with the Saginaw "canned ham" P pump and onto the next thing.

 

[serial car restorer]

Your Mustang 'box looks a lot like the new Lares 4-turn P/S box from Summit. I'd be interested in anyone's experiences with one of these.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lsc-11083/make/ford/model/bronco/year/1969
https://www.larescorp.com/Part/11083

 

[thegreatjustino]

Your Mustang 'box looks a lot like the new Lares 4-turn P/S box from Summit. I'd be interested in anyone's experiences with one of these.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lsc-11083/make/ford/model/bronco/year/1969
https://www.larescorp.com/Part/11083

The pump is from a Mustang, not the box.

The box is obviously a stock EB six turn box. As stated, contact rebuilders to see who's still offering the six to four (or in some cases three) turn conversion.

 

[Thaddeusrex]

Thanks all. I appreciate the comments. It seems like we wandered a bit off the question at hand. I’m not interested in rebuilding what I have, or buying refurbished. Too much on my plate, and too much risk. Unfortunately, in the bay area here, the good reasonably priced shops are all gone. You pay a fortune, and you can’t trust the quality of work, so you’re better off buying new from a reputable U.S. manufacturer.

I just want to buy a new, best driving, highest quality, bolt in kit I can get.

 

[ntsqd]

Which is why we're most all suggesting specific vendors who are trustable and who do a good job. The path that you are on is not one where you can simply buy COTS the parts needed to get there. When you get to the dampers you're going to want to talk to someone like Accutune and tell them what you want it to do because COTS dampers aren't going to get you where you're saying that you want to be either. Same with the steering. You can buy some of it COTS, but if you really want to hit your target it won't all be available and some custom tuning will be required.

 

[Shimmy]

i redid my steering last year:

Borgeson box
WH saginaw pump with dual return lines (i'm running hydroboost)
Borgeson ujoints and WH steering shaft
IDIDIT steering column

i'm very happy with the outcome and performance with 35s.

 

[bronco italiano]

I have a factory '79 F250 pwr steering gear and saginaw pump for sale if your interested PM me.
As Jamesroney said, factory box is the best.
Other options should be West Texas Off-road: redneckram.com
Lee power steering
WildHorses 4x4 is my "go to" place personally

 

[thegreatjustino]

Unfortunately, in the bay area here, the good reasonably priced shops are all gone.

not true

https://www.straightlinesteering.com/

 

[toddz69]

OK, figured pics out. Joined.
View attachment 939902

As @thegreatjustino noted, you have a Mustang pump, aka a CII pump. They're not quite as undesirable as the original Thompson pumps, but close. It appears you might have a Mustang front dress on your engine based on the bracket I see? If you do, a nice replacement would be a Saginaw pump mounted in a Lars bracket (designed by our own @lars here) from Wild Horses - assuming they still sell them.

Todd Z.

 

[Thaddeusrex]

not true

https://www.straightlinesteering.com/

OK I overstated that. My bad. Very hard to find. Thanks for the link!