Optima

[sprdv1]

Some opinions are based on one or two applications/batteries. Others are based on 100's, 1000's, of batteries and applications.

Yes sir, Definitely..

 

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Since I'm working on my truck & battery shopping I learn quite a bit and I think I know which way I'll go.

But, like everything else on a forum it's always apples to oranges

You will always have, "I like this' or 'I had good luck with this"

RRRAAAYYY, has some good points, hopefully we will get the answers to those questions, since they are to Optima Jim, I will let me take care that

Doing ' my homework ' I have many of the answers to those questions and the others I needed to make my choose

Why do you buy a battery are you buying the name or the performance of what it does. Are you buying it for the high CCA's vs the high Deep Cycle, the high CCA's vs the Recovery or the high Deep Cycle vs the Recovery Time. Most Battery's offer one or the other not both or all.

Doing some homework it seems AGM batteries do need a different or added help for recharing. Odyssey's work better with their brand charger. Just like RRRAAAYYY says OptimaJim tells you how to charge an Optima (fully - charge)

Is Optima a bad battery - No.

Does Optima use Virgin Lead - No

Is Optima made in the USA anymore - No

Is Optima as heavy as it was before - No

Do all AGM Batteries cost the same - No

If everybody is on the Sprial-Wound Gel-Cel wagon how come nobody talks about Exide ?



How come price was never brought up, does the one that cost more any better ?

Does the one that weighs more are better (way do the weigh more) ?


Does anyone remember Faradane ( the first Epoxy-Plate Gel-Cel Battery ) before the Optima came out ?

Couple of other good points here that I would like to touch on. "Gel-Cel" in the early years of Optimas many people in the "public" got the idea that Optimas were Gel Cels. Optima didnt mind as Gel cell batteries are near indestructable in deep cycle applications and cost twice as much as a nAGM battery. So they did very little to correct this problem. In fact it was not for several years that you would start to see it on their brouchures in the fine print that they were not gel cell batteries.

AGM stands for absorbed glass matt. Which means there is a matt (usually fiberglass i believe) inbetween the plates. It holds the electrolyte to the plate, which prevents it from sloshing around. If you removed the case of the battery, the acid would eventually seep out. This is why you are not allowed to install an AGM upside down. As the acid would eventually seep out the vent holes. yes they are still vented, but only when pressure builds up blows a safetly valve.

Gel cells on the other hand are like a big block of jello. If you took the case off, the battery would still work fine forever as long as you didnt move it. They will also work underwater, etc. They however do not like large discharge rates, like starting. Though with a PMGR starter, they would probably last quite well now.

The spiral core technology was first patented by Odyssey, from what I have been told. It was by no means the first AGM battery. AGM had been in use by the military (primarily Odyssey) and telecommunications industry (primarily Deka) for years at that point. Optima was however the first company to market the technology to the public. (Again by memory, maybe in error).

To the best of my knowledge the spiral core battery is patented. Which would make me curious as to how Exide and Mastercraft both have version os it. I know Exide and Optima are both owned by Johnson Controls. Maybe a licensing agreement. But I would be surprised if JC set up two different plants to make two similar batteries.

Maybe OptimaJim will have some more information about that.

 

[Hank_]

I know when I purchased my Deka I originally went in to buy a yellow top. I went to a store that sells nothing but batteries. I told him what I was looking for and he told me about the Deka. He said they have less problems with the Deka and it was quite a bit less. He had the yellow top in stock but still sold me on the Deka. Plus I believe the battery is made in the USA and you have to like that.

Henry

 

[is_wiz]

After reading this thread I went home and painted my battery top yellow. Its so easy. I don't know why anyone would pay $149 when a $3 can of spray paint does the same thing.

 

[DirtDonk]

I can't believe I never tried that!

What do the Deka's cost? It might have been mentioned in one of the posts, but I don't remember seeing it.

Paul

 

[Mark]

I can't believe I never tried that!

What do the Deka's cost? It might have been mentioned in one of the posts, but I don't remember seeing it.

Paul

Post #14
http://www.classicbroncos.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1604272&postcount=14
$149

 

[sandguy356]

While I don't have all the knowledge that optima Jim has, or even some others that have posted on this thread, I don have my own, first hand info.
My uncle works for JCI, so I have bought 5 Optimas thru him, using his employee discount. My first battery was a red top, that finally crapped out after 9 years last fall, it was heavy, but worked great with a small charge at the beginning of the summer. Next I had a yellow top, 5 years in my race trailer running the winch with no charging, with another 3 years on my fullsize bronco before I sold it. Next was 2 more yellow tops for my daily driver, '97 PSD F250, still in there with no issues for the last 5 years. Now, bought a red top for my play bronco last fall, had some issues with it not keeping a charge and ended up exchanging it for a yellow top this spring. So far, so good.
One thing I did notice, the shipping has gotten cheaper over the last 3, it used to be $15, last one was down to $12, I'm assuming due to weight.
I still think they are a good battery, but they are not "head and shoulders" better than the other stuff like they used to be. I would more than likely buy another one, but the Deka would get some serious consideration.

 

[RRRAAAYYY2]

I can't believe I never tried that!

What do the Deka's cost? It might have been mentioned in one of the posts, but I don't remember seeing it.

Paul

Remybattery.com and Autobarn usually have the best prices on them. I would get a quote from them, and taker it to a local dealer and see if they will price match.

 

[Socal Tom]

Yeah, I wouldn't count on Optima Jim responding to any questions. He's posted 3 times in 2 years, all the same MO. " here is a bunch of info about why you guys don't know" and then he doesn't come back for several months.
Tom

 

[73bronco]

Sounds like a lot of bad experiences with the Optimas! I still like them personally but would now highly consider running a deka or odyssey. I ran a yellow top in my Bronco until my regulator went bad and let the alternator charge at full field(17 volts) for over 100 miles one day. The battery was gassing out horribly and was too hot to touch but never exploded or leaked. Took it out but was really happy it was there as I think a "normal" battery would have blown up. I replaced it with 2 red tops that I have not had a bit of trouble with. I also put a red top in my wife's car that I have had no problems with. The yellow top I took out of my bronco was checked with a high dollar snap-on battery charger/tester with the AGM setting and it tested out at 98% so I am going to install it in my F-250 and see what happens! I have another red top sitting around that will go in my ford escort when that battery dies. I am not very worried about the escort battery dying as the original motorcraft went 11 years before I felt it was getting too old to be reliable. I put a huge deka(regular wet cell) battery in it to replace that one so I think I am good for quite a while longer!

 

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Yeah, I wouldn't count on Optima Jim responding to any questions. He's posted 3 times in 2 years, all the same MO. " here is a bunch of info about why you guys don't know" and then he doesn't come back for several months.
Tom

I cant wait to he shows up on the Bullet. LOL. Going to be a nasty thread there.

 

[DuneBuster]

Couple? They've been crap the last 5 years at least..
Prior to 2003 Optima was THEE name in offroad batteries.
But then their manufacturing process changed. They were bought out and mass sold in multiple discount stores, they weren't as good. One of my yellow tops from 2003 is still going strong. My other yellow top from 2003 failed and I purchased the Deka Intimidator which was recommended by many on this site.
Picked up the new Deka Intimidator 9A78DT from the local Owens Auto Supply for $149.00.

x2 on that Deka batteries are really dependable.. it's in my bronco and got a pair of 16AH deep discharge batteries of theirs in my jetskis for the last 5 years. Used to have to replace the old flooded foreign batteries every other year. I've saved a lot this way,,

 

[OptimaJim]

I apologize to everyone for my delay in responding. My wife and I recently celebrated our anniversary and she’s not crazy about me doing much work while we’re on vacation. I did see a beautiful green Bronco in Kiel, Wisconsin on my way back, with a ClassicBroncos.com decal on the windshield. I don’t know who owns that truck, but it’s a stunner!

The job I do for Optima can kind of be equated to pro-active customer service. We do have a toll-free number on every battery we make, a website and an e-mail address, where people can contact us if they have any questions or concerns about our products, but we’ve found that quite a few folks prefer to come to forums like this one to ask questions. Sometimes the answers and advice are great, sometimes they need some assistance. Sometimes when I try to put correct information out there, it draws out more incorrect information, even on little things like how long I’ve been registered on this site (9 months, not two years). Exide is not owned by JCI either. I’ll do my best to set the record straight on everything else, but please bear with me, as this process can sometimes take a while.

Our batteries are still made with 99.99% pure, virgin lead. Whatever you’ve heard about a six-pound weight reduction is completely untrue. There can be a variation in weight of several pounds between different group sizes, but that’s because some batteries are physically larger than others. Also, in equivalent sizes, a dual purpose battery such as a YellowTop will weigh more than a RedTop.

There has never been a weight reduction in the product that compromised the performance of the battery. In fact, the current RedTop has higher performance specs than those of previous generations. Gates-era (1980s) RedTops were rated 650 CCA, the equivalent current production RedTop 34 is rated 800CCA.

No one in the industry releases warranty return rate numbers, but I can tell you that our return rate is and has always been historically low, better than industry standards, and has continued to improve since JCI acquired Optima. The original Gates-era battery was designed in the pre-CAD era. The current generation of Optimas have benefited from a combination of modern tools, material efficiency and a production process that has significantly reduced variability, which has increased both consistency and quality.

That’s not to say that we never get any returns, but as I mentioned before, many of the “bad” batteries returned to us are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly recharged. I do come across people quite often, who enjoy picking up “dead” Optima cores for a few bucks and properly-recharging them and getting several good years of use out of them. Here’s one I came across just the other day-

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2752816&postcount=64

I should also mention that the Gates Rubber Company, specifically Gates Energy Division, first patented the SpiralCell technology which JCI ultimately acquired in the 1970s. Generally, a utility patent (a patent for an invention, as opposed to a design patent which is for the appearance) is good for 17 years from the date issued. Gates also was granted numerous other patents for both spiral cell and flat plate AGM technology.

We have never attempted to confuse consumers into thinking Optimas are gel batteries and have actually gone out of our way to point out that treating an Optima like a gel battery could actually damage the battery. I’ve posted that information on dozens of forums, it’s listed on our website- http://www.optimabatteries.com/product_support/charging_agmbattery.php and we mention it in our instructional videos- 32 in this video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkAr1Uj2EOg

Our production facility is located in Monterrey, Mexico In fact, you can view a video of our facility here- http://optimabatteries.com/contact_us/mexico_video/ Optima Batteries fully complies with all necessary customs, import, export, duty, and NAFTA documentation requirements.

Steve, I don’t think we’re ignoring the stories people have about our batteries. In fact, I would suggest my presence here is evidence of that. The fact is, we sell a lot of batteries and as a result, there will be a corresponding number of conversations about our batteries.

The instructions willtel linked to from the Pelican board are for deeply-discharged batteries. These are batteries that are often discharged below 10.5 volts, which many chargers will not recognize or charge. This is a battery charger issue and isn’t a situation unique to Optima, we just chose to deal with it by creating YouTube videos that explain proper battery maintenance and as 76 bronco J indicated, having me actively share this information with consumers. Other manufacturers have dealt with this issue by including specific language in their warranties, allowing them to void the warranty on batteries they deem to be “discharged.” In most situations, an Optima can be treated and charged just like a regular lead-acid battery.

If anyone has any other questions about our batteries, I’ll do my best to answer them. I appreciate your patience and interest in Optima batteries!

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

[bad 68]

OK Jim, The facebook sight is not for questions and answers. So could you tell my why with the ground cables disconected the Yellow top Optimas in my 68EB drop to 11.7 volts in 30-45 days??? The newest was purchased 3 months ago from ORielys. It has a date on it of 9-5. Is this a waranty issue that would be covered.

 

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Optima Jim,
Congratulations on your anniversary. In this day and age it is good to see people having them to celebrate.

Why would you start omitting the fact that you are using virgin lead from your literature. Or is it back in at. As I have not seen your pamphlets in a long time.

I am a bit confused about your dates, which just could be a typo. Most people in the battery industry have said Odyssey (or a group from) delevoped the first spiral core battery, and recieved the patent on it. Maybe you have some further details. If it was Gates and JCI purchased the Patenet in the 70's, how was it Optima used the patent to make batteries, and what would have been the point of JCI purchasing OIptima? This is where my confusion comes from.

The weight thing is not something I was told, it was something I seen. Yellow Tops used to weigh 41lbs, or there abouts. I am going by a decade old memory. When our warranty rate went from under 10% to over 50%, and we started investigating the root cause, we discovered the post costco batteries were weighing around 36lbs.

Then because of the nature of who we are, we and Optima's Master Distributor started cutting warranty batteries apart to see what was going on. Our conclusion was the inner plate connector had failed where it attached to the posts. There is always the uneducated customer who returns a good battery. That is the joy of selling retail. None of our returns were like that. We refused to test a battery that was under 12.5volts, and we refused ot warranty an untested battery.

I stand corrected on the Exide ownership.

I also did not mean to leave the impression that you purposefully advertised your batteries as Gel Cells. It was more you did not correct the mistaken assumption the public had of the battery. We spent several years arguing with people that they were not Gels, but AGMs. And I have ot say that when a large portion of your customer base is making the same conclusion (i.e. they are Gels), something is wrong. As that just does not come out of no where.

After several years your pamphlets started rebuking the gel cell idea, but only in fine print. This is all before the internet, like 15-20 years ago. So you may be correcting the information now, but at one point you (as in Optima, before JCI) did not.

You noted an increase in CCA ratings on the Red Top. Why is this an example of an increase in quality?

 

[StnePny]

What I have been told was that Optima now uses refined lead (the impuritites have been remove). The refined lead makes they lighter ?

I was also told that when Optima was in Colorado they have a state of the are factory. Just a JCI has in Montery, Nexico. The only difference is that JCI started to reformulate the reciepe for the paste, combined with the heavy humidity from Montery there were some issues. As where Colorado has the lack of humdity of the new Mexico plant.
(That's why alot of the Aerospace company stay in the California desert for building carbon fiber & other composities - lack of humdity).

Are there any truths to what I been hearing ?

 

[ransil]

I just weighed a 1994 red top optima it weighs in at 40lbs.

 

[StnePny]

What model number is it ?


There website says Group 35 (8020-164) weighs 31.7 lbs.

 

[DirtDonk]

Non-scientific (bathroom scale) weight of a Blue Top (Deep-Cycle version D34M) is 46 lbs.
Battery is approx. 4-5 years old. Site says "minimum weight" would be 43.5 lbs.
Seems well within a reasonable margin-of-error given my weighing method.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

What model number is it ?

There website says Group 35 (8020-164) weighs 31.7 lbs.

I think his old 800U is the typical Group 34/78 that's listed at 38.8 lbs minimum.
That's what it looks like anyway.

Paul