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Painless Wiring Harness W/ Holley HyperSpark Distributor, Coil and Capacitative Box

74 Bronco Billy

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I am trying to wire up my Painless Harness. I've got the dash pretty much done. Time to route the wires thru the firewall and I've come across a perplexing problem.
I have chosen to use the Holley Sniper TBI system, including their HyperSpark distributor with Coil and Capacitative Box. Should be Plug N Play, right?
The HyperSpark coil has no "-" nor "+" nuts on it, it is TFI style plug n play. The directions from Holley specifically say in regards to the coil's connections, "this is the only wire that makes electrical contact with the coil + ( or -) terminal", in reference to the Orange or Brn/Orange wires that come from CD box. So no other connections.
Which leads me to my yellow lines sheet. I have the Engine module from the middle of the dash (painless harness), and broke down the 15 wires. Reverse switch and Neutral safety I can figure out once I get the switch mounted on the C4. There's 6 wires that I am unsure what to do with. There are 2 separate Blu #900 wires that say switched 12V source, one labeled in Ign module. I'm thinking that one goes to the switched 12V for Sniper. Right?
But what's the 2nd Blu one for?
There are 2 separate wires labeled #999 Grey/Yellow, both labeled origin coil (-), one is again part of the ign module. Where do they go?
Then there's #920 Red/Grn Coil (+), comes from main fuse block and functions as a switched 12V +. I have no clue what to do with this wire.
Painless gives some great diagrams, but they all have coils with lugs to connect the wires to, and there's no lugs on thos coil. So, delete all coil wires?
Lastly, #954 Wht/Blk is for electric choke, but I see no connections for it on the Sniper wiring diagram. So delete as well?

I know, you're thinking those additional leads on the 10 pin connector from the TBI could help, right? Well, imput #1 is gen triggered A/C relay, #2 is a programmable grnd input, #3 and #4 are for fan relays, #5 is a gnd triggered A/C relay, I'm using the dark brown to connect to my tachometer #923 Grn. That's it for wires.
So, what do I do with all those harness wires?
Just delete coil wires? I'm definitely not seeing this clearly. At least I have one wire for each side of the starter solenoid identified.
In the mean time, I'll start researching my Explorer Serpentine Alternator wiring set up.
Ha!
Any help is very much appreciated.
Thx
Forrest
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RedBank

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Hopefully you will get some help from those that can soon. I'm thinking very few have the complete Sniper setup like you do. I have the same set up but I'm just now in the paint stage. Please share on here what you figure out and any advice you have. Good luck.

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Jdgephar

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For the 900 Blue wires, they are switched 12V from the ignition (so is the #920 Red/Green). You can use just use the 920 Red/Green to power the Sniper box (the Red switched wire for the Sniper EFI, and the pink wire on the TB 7 pin connector). The blue wires can be removed, or use them to trigger other 12V needs. I would use one to trigger the fuel pump relay by connecting it to the relay coil terminals (typically pin 86 on a Bosch style relay, and ground to pin 85). Connect the other end of the blue wire to the Red/Green wire as the 12v source. You don't need a ballast resistor with the TFI style ignition coil.

You don't need the #999 grey/yellow. The Sniper EFI box hooks up to the coil instead. You will use the dark brown from the TB 10 pin connector for the tach.

#954 Wht/Blk you will not need.

On the starter solenoid, you only need the wire going to the "S" terminal. You don't need the "I" terminal, since you will not be using a ballast resistor. The purpose of the "I" terminal is to bypass the resistor wire or ballast resistor to give the coil more voltage while cranking, since the battery voltage tends to drop. Your setup won't use the resistor, so no need for that wire.

The Sniper EFI will be the only two wires going to the coil.

Hope that helps!
 
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74 Bronco Billy

74 Bronco Billy

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Hopefully you will get some help from those that can soon. I'm thinking very few have the complete Sniper setup like you do. I have the same set up but I'm just now in the paint stage. Please share on here what you figure out and any advice you have. Good luck.

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Redbank, thanks for the wishes, yes, I will keep this thread updated. I have several others that I started, one for the wiper switch which Jdgephar helped with as well, and then the GM steering column needing mating to a Ford only painless harness. I’ll try to get those in here later.

For the 900 Blue wires, they are switched 12V from the ignition (so is the #920 Red/Green). You can use just use the 920 Red/Green to power the Sniper box (the Red switched wire for the Sniper EFI, and the pink wire on the TB 7 pin connector). The blue wires can be removed, or use them to trigger other 12V needs. I would use one to trigger the fuel pump relay by connecting it to the relay coil terminals (typically pin 86 on a Bosch style relay, and ground to pin 85). Connect the other end of the blue wire to the Red/Green wire as the 12v source. You don't need a ballast resistor with the TFI style ignition coil.

You don't need the #999 grey/yellow. The Sniper EFI box hooks up to the coil instead. You will use the dark brown from the TB 10 pin connector for the tach.

#954 Wht/Blk you will not need.

On the starter solenoid, you only need the wire going to the "S" terminal. You don't need the "I" terminal, since you will not be using a ballast resistor. The purpose of the "I" terminal is to bypass the resistor wire or ballast resistor to give the coil more voltage while cranking, since the battery voltage tends to drop. Your setup won't use the resistor, so no need for that wire.

The Sniper EFI will be the only two wires going to the coil.

Hope that helps!


Jdegephar thanks for your help once again. I was to the point of guessing, and that wasn’t good. You explained it clearly, and I would of hooked it up differently, not sure my way would have worked as I would have used the blue wire to trigger the SniperTBI on ( red and pink wire), and I would have wired up the “I” terminal. So what does the “S” terminal do?

I’ll be dead heading a lot of wires at the dash. I’m flush cutting them, bending over, then heat shrinking them, then rolling up in circle to be hanged in place in case someone in future wants to go back to fully stock.


Jdgephar, do you have a wiring diagram or explanation for what I have to hook up next? The alternator on an explorer serpentine set up to the painless harness? There seems to be some good diagrams from painless, but my alternator has a 3 wire plug, so, 🤔
Thanks again.
Forrest
 

Jdgephar

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So what does the “S” terminal do?
When 12v is applied to the S terminal, it shorts the two large posts together to operate the starter. If you have the PMGR style, the solenoid (more like a high current relay) turns on the solenoid on the starter. If you have an original starter, it just cranks the starter. The bracket of the solenoid is the ground. The wire is connected to the start terminal on the ignition switch.




Jdgephar, do you have a wiring diagram or explanation for what I have to hook up next? The alternator on an explorer serpentine set up to the painless harness? There seems to be some good diagrams from painless, but my alternator has a 3 wire plug, so,

Thanks again.

Forrest]

Tech section on the Explorer swap has the wiring diagram for the alternator. Next? Maybe fuel system?

http://classicbroncos.com/tech/explorer-5-0-serpentine-accessory-drive-belt-conversion

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74 Bronco Billy

74 Bronco Billy

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When 12v is applied to the S terminal, it shorts the two large posts together to operate the starter. If you have the PMGR style, the solenoid (more like a high current relay) turns on the solenoid on the starter. If you have an original starter, it just cranks the starter. The bracket of the solenoid is the ground. The wire is connected to the start terminal on the ignition switch.

I cut off the alternator strip plug, figured out I could delete the small original grounding wire #901black/ red since I’m using grounding straps, CORRECT?

The non numbered yellow wire that went to voltage regulator I have cut back and deleted...no where to go. There really is not a great diagram for converting a painless harness to 4G and using the Holley Sniper w/ Hyperspark... there’s a lot of wires deleted in this scenario. Like the “F” wire going to Alternator from regulator, it’s deleted too, CORRECT? and all the “I” wires to the solenoid, they are all deleted, right? We don’t need to supply a 12V current to the “I” solenoid side while cranking????


The Tech section on the Explorer swap has the wiring diagram for the alternator. Next? Maybe fuel system?

I had to look at those Explorer diagrams 5 times before I could feel confident in my wiring setup. They are written well, diagrammed well, but I have too many changes from what you guys were working with, I.e., Painless Harness, Holley Sniper W/ Hyperspark distributor and coil for the diagrams to really cover my scenario.

I’m still not positive, ugh. Luckily, the sniper has built in relay for fuel pump, so that’s complete. Working on 2/0 Ga wire and tinned lugs for battery / starter / solenoid / Alt connections

I may have to draw out a diagram to have you guys confirm I’m doing it right, just feel like I’m missing something.


And why is there a mega fuse between the negative battery post and ground? How big should it be? Explorer Tech Diagram 6B.

How big should the maxi fuse between the alternator B+ and the battery + cable be? Explorer Tech Diagram 6A. If I run this, do I still need to run the red #960 wire from Alt B+ to the painless maxi fuse? Page 61. Seems duplicitous and likely to blow the painless 70 amp fuse by the 130 amp Explorer Alternator.

#957 Red/Blue wire is not used unless using a duraspark distributor, is that the case with the Holley hyperspark distributor? Just delete #957?

I’ve removed the brown #970 wire from (- ) coil to “I” Solenoid as the Hyperspark coil does not allow it to be hooked up (deleted).
I removed the Orange Alt “F” wire as it is an external regulator wire, and the 4Gs is already inside.

I think that covers it, I hope :-[:eek:. ;D

Thanks to all, Forrest.

Hope to button this up this weekend.
 
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74 Bronco Billy

74 Bronco Billy

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I talked to the painless representative on Fri, wanted to find a source for the dual battery painless control system that I'm installing along side the painless harness. Rep stated I could use #919 Red/Blu to provide 12V + for the Green wire on toggle switch of dual battery set up. Ok that makes sense since it has power in the "on" and "start" positions. BUT do I keep #919 attached to its end point of "S" position on starter solenoid, or do I just make 919 go to Grn wire only on toggle switch, bypassing starter solenoid? Hmm.
Still don't have all the answers on this wiring set up.
Since I'm using 4G Alternator and Holley Sniper TBI w/ HyperSpark and Coil setup:

I've deleted: #970 to Coil+, #957 to ign module, #960 to ALT from Maxi fuse to ALT, #314 F wire to ALT, #901 ALT gnd, the Yellow wire for external the external regulator to ALT, and dead headed the "S" connection on the 4 G ALT connector.

I've added #914 GRN/RED to ALT"I", Battery cable to Mega fuse, then to ALT B+, Connected #916 from Maxifuse to "B+" side of Starter Solenoid, #915 Blk/Yellow to "B+" on ALT.

Is a thick grounding strap from ALT bracket enough to ground engine? Or do I need a separate one from engine block?
Is the #915 still supposed to go to the B+ on 4G ALT, or somewhere else?
Again, should I make the batter isolator switch wire "grn" connect on the "S" side of starter solenoid? Or where?

I'm thinking this is correct, but check out my diagram and see if it makes sense to you?

Thx for all comments

Forrest
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74 Bronco Billy

74 Bronco Billy

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#919 only has power when in the Start position

I guess technical services was wrong. If I attach the Grn wire to the "S" position on the starter solenoid, will it get power in the start and on positions since # 19 and 957 are connected there?

Thanks for the reply Eric.
 

eric0o1

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The S terminal only has power when the #919 sends power to it. Meaning it will only have power when the key is in the START position. Connect to green wire to one of the multiple switched 12v accessory wires from the fuse block.
 

Jdgephar

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I talked to the painless representative on Fri, wanted to find a source for the dual battery painless control system that I'm installing along side the painless harness. Rep stated I could use #919 Red/Blu to provide 12V + for the Green wire on toggle switch of dual battery set up. Ok that makes sense since it has power in the "on" and "start" positions. BUT do I keep #919 attached to its end point of "S" position on starter solenoid, or do I just make 919 go to Grn wire only on toggle switch, bypassing starter solenoid? Hmm.

Still don't have all the answers on this wiring set up.

Since I'm using 4G Alternator and Holley Sniper TBI w/ HyperSpark and Coil setup:



I've deleted: #970 to Coil+, #957 to ign module, #960 to ALT from Maxi fuse to ALT, #314 F wire to ALT, #901 ALT gnd, the Yellow wire for external the external regulator to ALT, and dead headed the "S" connection on the 4 G ALT connector.



I've added #914 GRN/RED to ALT"I", Battery cable to Mega fuse, then to ALT B+, Connected #916 from Maxifuse to "B+" side of Starter Solenoid, #915 Blk/Yellow to "B+" on ALT.



Is a thick grounding strap from ALT bracket enough to ground engine? Or do I need a separate one from engine block?

Is the #915 still supposed to go to the B+ on 4G ALT, or somewhere else?

Again, should I make the batter isolator switch wire "grn" connect on the "S" side of starter solenoid? Or where?



I'm thinking this is correct, but check out my diagram and see if it makes sense to you?



Thx for all comments



Forrest
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I'll fix your diagram when I get home tomorrow from vacation. There's a couple adjustments to make.

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74 Bronco Billy

74 Bronco Billy

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The S terminal only has power when the #919 sends power to it. Meaning it will only have power when the key is in the START position. Connect to green wire to one of the multiple switched 12v accessory wires from the fuse block.

Thx Eric, I get that, what doesn't make sense if a switched 12V accessory wire. The painless directions were quite clear stating that the green wire was not to have power if the key is in the accessory position. Are you using the term accessory as in additional wires that are switched or are these 12V wires from the switched position on the fuse block and only have power in the start and run positions?

I'll fix your diagram when I get home tomorrow from vacation. There's a couple adjustments to make.

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Thanks Jdgephar, I'm really scratching my head. I think I may have deleted one or more wires that are needed, not sure about that. I greatly appreciate both you and Eric's time.

Forrest
 

DirtDonk

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If I attach the Grn wire to the "S" position on the starter solenoid, will it get power in the start and on positions since #919 and 957 are connected there?

Hey Forrest. First of all, we're still talking about the Green w/red wire from the alternator's 3-wire connector. Correct?
if you connect a Green wire from the harness (or almost any other wire for that matter) to the "S" terminal of the starter relay, your starter will crank as soon as you turn the key to the "ON" position. Or in some cases even the ACC position.
So that's a no-no right there.

If you mean the Green wire from the alternator connector, then that does not work either since then your alternator will only charge when the starter is cranking. Then it will go back to sleep (technical term!) when you release the key back to the ON position. Obviously not a good thing.
Your Green w/red alternator wire needs to be hot in ON only from the key, so that it does not turn the alternator on when you're listening to music or otherwise have the key in the ACC position.
Look for the specific wire in the Painless instructions that says it's for the alternator regulator. Should be Green w/red but I don't remember it's circuit number. I think Eric was just speaking generically to keep you from attaching it to the starter relay.

Both the 919 and 957 wires are START-only wires. Your neutral safety 919 circuit wire is the one from the ignition switch that cranks the starter. You only have a neutral safety switch if you have an automatic transmission. Otherwise it simply runs directly from the ignition switch to the starter relay's S terminal.
The 957 wire is not powered, but when 12v comes from the ignition switch during START it sends a signal to the stock ignition module to let it know you're starting the engine. Some modules retard the ignition timing in order to facilitate starting.

If your Sniper setup needs a START signal, then that's where your #957 wire goes. If it does not need one, then you don't use it.

Thx Eric, I get that, what doesn't make sense if a switched 12V accessory wire. The painless directions were quite clear stating that the green wire was not to have power if the key is in the accessory position. Are you using the term accessory as in additional wires that are switched or are these 12V wires from the switched position on the fuse block and only have power in the start and run positions?

I'm sure he'll chime back in, but yes I think he was speaking generically and you need to continue to look for the existing Red w/green stripe wire that is labeled "alternator regulator" or something like that.
Usually the only two circuits that have power in ON but not in ACC are for the ignition and charging systems.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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By the way, in case I missed the discussion, you probably don't need the #970 Brown wire for your setup. It's for the stock ignition and probably not needed for your computer controlled stuff.
However, it does not hurt anything to have this redundant circuit, so if you already have it wired up, just leave it.

Paul
 

Jdgephar

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I cut off the alternator strip plug, figured out I could delete the small original grounding wire #901black/ red since I’m using grounding straps, CORRECT?

Correct, wire #901 (since you have a ground strap) and #914 will not be used with your 4G alternator. Although, it would be better to run a wire from the alternator bracket directly to the battery negative, or the same ground post you connect the battery negative to.

The non numbered yellow wire that went to voltage regulator I have cut back and deleted...no where to go. There really is not a great diagram for converting a painless harness to 4G and using the Holley Sniper w/ Hyperspark... there’s a lot of wires deleted in this scenario. Like the “F” wire going to Alternator from regulator, it’s deleted too, CORRECT? and all the “I” wires to the solenoid, they are all deleted, right? We don’t need to supply a 12V current to the “I” solenoid side while cranking????

"F" wire is deleted. "I" wires to the starter solenoid are deleted. "S" terminal on the starter solenoid is all that will be used.

The 4G alternator has 3 wires. B+ is the wire to the fuse/battery for charging. The "A" terminal you can connect to the B+ terminal. This is the easiest. This is typically a yellow wire if you purchased a connector that fits the alternator. If you do this, then you will not need wire #915 black/yellow. If you already have a black/yellow wire #915 spliced to the cable, just connect this to the "A" terminal on the alternator. The "I" terminal on the alternator you need to connect to a source that is 12V in run. The #914 red/green wire would be a good source for that.

And why is there a mega fuse between the negative battery post and ground? How big should it be? Explorer Tech Diagram 6B. How big should the maxi fuse between the alternator B+ and the battery + cable be? Explorer Tech Diagram 6A.

There is no mega fuse between the battery and the ground. It's a terrible leftover artifact of the drawing making it look like the mega fuse points to the battery. It does not. The large fuse is only in the wire between the alternator and your battery. Use a fuse rated for your alternator current. I would probably use a 150 amp fuse in your case with the 4G alternator. You are correct, the 70amp won't last long with your 4G alternator. Use the 70 amp fuse on the #916 wire that goes to the fuse block.

If I run this, do I still need to run the red #960 wire from Alt B+ to the painless maxi fuse? Page 61. Seems duplicitous and likely to blow the painless 70 amp fuse by the 130 amp Explorer Alternator.

No, you will not need the #960 red wire. Just one fuse from the alternator to the battery. Make sure it's rated for the 130a alternator. Use the 70 amp fuse on the #916 wire that goes to the fuse block.

#957 Red/Blue wire is not used unless using a duraspark distributor, is that the case with the Holley hyperspark distributor? Just delete #957?

Correct, this is not needed with your Holley setup. In case anyone is wondering, the Duraspark box has the capability to retard timing by a few degrees when 12V is applied from this wire during cranking/starting. It is meant for easier starting.

I talked to the painless representative on Fri, wanted to find a source for the dual battery painless control system that I'm installing along side the painless harness. Rep stated I could use #919 Red/Blu to provide 12V + for the Green wire on toggle switch of dual battery set up. Ok that makes sense since it has power in the "on" and "start" positions. BUT do I keep #919 attached to its end point of "S" position on starter solenoid, or do I just make 919 go to Grn wire only on toggle switch, bypassing starter solenoid? Hmm.

Do not do this. The toggle switch will only work with the key in "Start". The starter solenoid "I" terminal only has 12V when the ignition key is in "start". You won't be using the "I" terminal at all.

I'm assuming you want to use this additional switch to connect the two batteries together to charge the Aux battery. The other option is to "jump start" the Bronco if the main battery is too low to start the truck.

In the case that you just want to charge the Aux battery when the Bronco is running, I would suggest something other than this toggle switch and relay. However, it can work with the parts you have, but here are the pros and cons. With the toggle switch, you have to remember to turn it on, or you will end up with a dead Aux battery since it won't charge unless the switch is on. Depending on how we supply power to the switch, if you forget to turn it off, you could end up with both batteries dead. With the parts you have in hand, I would eliminate the toggle switch, and connect the yellow wire to one of the accessory wires 5, 6, 7 or 8 that provide 12V in Run. The cons are that both batteries will always be used to start the Bronco, potentially wearing out the solenoid early due to high current through it's contacts. Also, the winch will use both batteries if the Bronco key is left in on. The Pros are that you don't have to remember to turn on the switch to charge both batteries, and you don't have to remember to turn it off when you turn off the Bronco.

What I prefer to use on boats that have multiple battery setups is a charging activated relay. It monitors the voltage and will connect the two batteries together only when the vehicle/boat is running and the alternator charging, bringing the voltage up to ~14V. This way both batteries charge, but only one is discharging when starting the vehicle/boat, and in your case using the winch.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A

In the case that you want to use the switch as a backup to be able to "jump start" the Bronco, you will need to make sure that there is enough power for the solenoid to also turn on. In that case, you will want to connect the green wire from the toggle switch to the Aux battery positive terminal. This will allow the toggle switch to connect the two batteries together at anytime, ignition switch on or off, even if the main battery is completely dead. But again, in order to charge the Aux battery, you have to remember to turn the switch on, and remember to turn it off.
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EDIT: Please note that I made an error in this diagram. The #915 blk/yel wire is spliced inside the painless harness. Do not connect it to the B+ of the alternator or to the battery positive wire!
 
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Jdgephar

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I see now that the toggle switch has 2 positions. One position you can use to jump start if the main battery is dead. The second position I assume you want to use to charge the battery while the truck is on. If that's the case, connect the green wire of the switch to one of the accessory wires from the fuse box (numbered 5, 6, 7 or 8). These will only have 12V when the key is in the "on" position. You could also use any of the other "hot in run" wires, such as 914, 920, 966, 935, 905, 956, 954. Whatever is most convenient or available to connect to.

Don't use accessory wire #9. That one could leave the batteries connected with the key in the "ACC" position. This will drain both batteries when listening to the radio if you always leave the toggle switch in the "charging" position.
 
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74 Bronco Billy

74 Bronco Billy

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I see now that the toggle switch has 2 positions. One position you can use to jump start if the main battery is dead. The second position I assume you want to use to charge the battery while the truck is on. If that's the case, connect the green wire of the switch to one of the accessory wires from the fuse box (numbered 5, 6, 7 or 8). These will only have 12V when the key is in the "on" position. You could also use any of the other "hot in run" wires, such as 914, 920, 966, 935, 905, 956, 954. Whatever is most convenient or available to connect to.

Don't use accessory wire #9. That one could leave the batteries connected with the key in the "ACC" position. This will drain both batteries when listening to the radio if you always leave the toggle switch in the "charging" position.

Thanks a lot for clearing that up. I really didn't want to buy another product, and now that you gave me all the numbered wires that I can use, I will have this hooked up nicely real quick.
I just received lead pellets for the battery cable lugs i plan to use, any hints or tricks on making them? I find that the copper doesn't like to go all the way into the lug, and I only have a liquid flux for electronic connections, no paste. Any ideas where to get paste flux for the battery cables? Or can you use the flux that plumbers use? I bet you can't for a number of reasons.

Thanks again for clearing up the mega fuse, I got one on order. How big would you go for a winch? Is 450A too big? I have a Warn Powerhouse with compressor and winch combo, 11000 I believe. It is huge.

F
 

Jdgephar

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Plumbers flux should work fine...its all copper. Most people will probably say to crimp the wires, and thats probably the best. I honestly dont worry about flux unless I'm sweating water pipes.

What I've done in the past is hold the lug in a vice and use a propane torch to heat it up. I fill the hole with molten plumbing solder and then stick the wire in and hold it until the solder cools. These are with brass terminals though.

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Jdgephar

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Winches can draw in excess of 480 amps in full load. Might be best to just have a disconnect switch on the winch wire.

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74 Bronco Billy

74 Bronco Billy

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Jul 4, 2016
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Plumbers flux should work fine...its all copper. Most people will probably say to crimp the wires, and thats probably the best. I honestly dont worry about flux unless I'm sweating water pipes.

What I've done in the past is hold the lug in a vice and use a propane torch to heat it up. I fill the hole with molten plumbing solder and then stick the wire in and hold it until the solder cools. These are with brass terminals though.

Well, I bought plenty of lugs, pellets (lead), and I will try it. I've been crimping after soldering just in case.

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Winches can draw in excess of 480 amps in full load. Might be best to just have a disconnect switch on the winch wire.

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Do you have an example of what kind of disconnect you are talking about? It would need to be weather proof, something almost like a flag one so I could leave it disconnected unless I'm using it. I have a 450 mega fuse, I'll look up what my max draw is from the Warn site and go by that.
I have a 175 Amp fuse for the 4G Alt, but I'm getting a 150A today to size down per your drawing. Thanks for making the corrections and being specific for the wires to use, it really helped a lot.

Forrest

PS, Hope your vacation was great. We're starting to open up a lot here, making life a lot easier to live.
 
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