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Problem with WH Extreme Duty Output

377

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While changing out my transmission and transfer case on my rig I discovered why speedometer didn't work. I removed the speedo cable from my WH Extreme Output housing and immediately noticed the plastic gear was toast. It had melted on one side and the teeth were almost gone. So I look inside and see the plastic sleeve on the output shaft was in the same condition. Not sure what would have caused this. My rig may have had 50 miles on the housing and shaft. I know the speedo gear can be replaced but what can be done for the sleeve on the output shaft. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

Glass Pony

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I have the one that is a kit #8272 that uses my output housing (not the assembled one) and it came with a metal speedo gear on the shaft. Which one do you have?
The one thing that I did while filling the t-case with oil is I filled it part of the way through the hole where the speedo cable goes to be sure I had oil up in the output housing. I wasn't sure how long it took to get oil up there.
That's a bummer the speedo gear got screwed up. You'll have to tear it apart again.
Maybe one other thing that caused it is too much grease to hold the 13 rollers in place blocked a lube oil path?
Good luck with it and keep us posted.
 
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377

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I have the assembled one. As far as gear oil went it had plenty. When I pulled the speedo cable/gear retainer gear oil ran out the hole, so plenty of lube. My gear on the shaft appears to be blue plastic.
 

Glass Pony

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I have the assembled one. As far as gear oil went it had plenty. When I pulled the speedo cable/gear retainer gear oil ran out the hole, so plenty of lube. My gear on the shaft appears to be blue plastic.
I'm not familiar with the assembled one.
I had a local machine shop assemble mine and I think they got the preload a little tight because after a good run on the highway it gets a little warm (about 160+ degrees) but it is hanging in there so far.
Maybe dirtdonk can chime in here soon.
 
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377

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Interesting the plastic ones can slip off center. Might explain why it looked like they seized or something causing them to melt only on one side of each gear. You'd think on an almost six hundred dollar rear output assembly they would use metal instead of plastic. I am going to call WH not going to hold my breath though. Bought a set of chromo axles from them a couple years ago. When I got the package it looked like it had been run over and stomped. Needless to say I was missing the u joints because I am sure they fell out of one of the large holes in the box. I call WH and told them what happened. I figured the guy on the phone might tell me how to file a claim or offer to send replacements. Negative, not a peep and then he acted like I was putting him out when I asked for a part number on the u joints. Maybe they were fresh out of customer service that day. I am going to give them a call and I will let you guys know how things pan out in case someone else runs into this problem. Oh and I was way off base when I said the assembly maybe had fifty miles on it, I went and looked at the speedo it was 12.9 miles!
 
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Viperwolf1

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I'd like to see a pic of this output assembly before comenting. There are several types.
 
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377

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Viperwolf,
It is the assembled Extreme Duty Output Assembly WH sells. I am sure you don't remember but you gave me some things to look at when the gears first melted. At that point I didn't know the gears were melted though. I have question for you, unfortunately I think I already know the answer though. Can I take the drive gear off my stock output and put it on the WH output shaft?
 

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Viperwolf1

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Viperwolf,
It is the assembled Extreme Duty Output Assembly WH sells. I am sure you don't remember but you gave me some things to look at when the gears first melted. At that point I didn't know the gears were melted though. I have question for you, unfortunately I think I already know the answer though. Can I take the drive gear off my stock output and put it on the WH output shaft?

No, the stock gear won't fit.

The only way I can imagine the blue gear melting is with too much bearing preload. AA assembles the EB outputs and they don't even show a parts breakdown on their EB instruction sheet. However you can see the parts breakdown on the D300 instruction sheet. I know they don't recommend assembly of the unit by the customer. The bearing preload is set by one of several different sized shims. Have you considered contacting AA to see if they will fix it?
 

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377

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The gear in that picture looks just like my gear. You are correct it was already assembled , all I did was bolted it on and torqued the bolts. I had originally looked at AA's website but couldnt find that particular assembly. It can't hurt to contact AA. My biggest problem is I need to be able to move the rig. I didn't get a chance to call WH today, so I'll call both places tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks again for your help.
 

DirtDonk

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Hey 377, sorry you're having some trouble with your setup.
Yes, because you only bolted it on, under normal circumstances (and even some not so normal) either WH, or A/A should be able to take care of it somehow.
Not sure what else to look for at your end in the meantime, such as if it's possible that a cable was bound up, or something like that. The melting description does make it sound like it was indeed something internal.
Do you happen to have pics of the carnage? That would be a good start.

I do seem to remember hearing someone (here maybe?) saying something about trouble with speedo gears, but don't remember every hearing of the type of damage you're talking about. And it was usually damage to the driven gear, not the drive gear.
Not trying to shirk our duties (of course...%) but you might consider calling A/A first (1-800-350-2223) in case they have a known fix for a known issue. If they want you to call us, well, it was worth a shot. Was just thinking they might have more experience and expertise. Or if you just want to call us, that's fine too.

Interesting the plastic ones can slip off center.

Never heard that until Phil mentioned it in the other thread. But he knows his way around a Dana 20. Wasn't even aware you could get a plastic one for a D20 other than in the HD outputs.

You'd think on an almost six hundred dollar rear output assembly they would use metal instead of plastic.

Yeah, you might think. However I bet it's just because that for whatever reason A/A chose to use the Chrysler/Jeep gears(?) in the Atlas, it was an easy choice to use it in their D20 output assembly too. Or vice versa, depending on which came first?
Probably more readily available drive sleeves without going to a custom part.
I'm guessing that all's just because plastic is the material du jour these days.

I am going to call WH not going to hold my breath though. Bought a set of chromo axles from them a couple years ago. When I got the package it looked like it had been run over and stomped. Needless to say I was missing the u joints because I am sure they fell out of one of the large holes in the box. I call WH and told them what happened. I figured the guy on the phone might tell me how to file a claim or offer to send replacements. Negative, not a peep and then he acted like I was putting him out when I asked for a part number on the u joints. Maybe they were fresh out of customer service that day.

Apparently! And hopefully he's out of a job now.
Not sure who that was (would suck if it was me:-[), but unless there was some mitigating circumstance that i can't imagine right now, that's not our policy either. And if he was answering phones, should have known that.

A little late after the horse has left the barn, but we might still be able to figure something out that might help lessen the bad taste.
As far as that call, at the time it would have been a simple UPS claim from our end. You as the customer don't even have to do anything. We take care of it at our end. Assuming it was all done fairly quickly after the packaged was received. Beyond a certain timeframe of course, dealing with any shipper is a non-starter.
As far as this dilemma goes, give us a call and see if the experience is any different.

I know you said 12 miles, but assuming you have not driven it without the speedo working for the last 11 years, how long ago did you buy it?
This a long-term kind of a thing?;)

Paul
 
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377

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Paul,
Thanks for the response, I knew you would try to help and offer assistance. I agree with you about plastic being the material de jour. The cable wasn't bound up or anything of that nature it pretty much followed the factory layout. Originally that is what I thought might be the problem cable routing or a speedo issue. I did put a post on here about that possible aspect of the problem with no working speedo. Viperwolf responded to me to check and make sure that I had the plate where the cable goes into the housing in the correct position. I checked that and everything was fine so I did pull the cable out slightly to make sure it was seated correctly but didn't pull it out far enough to observe the driven gear damage. I am going to call AA but my biggest problem is sending it back if that's even an option because then I can't move my rig. I bought the assembly on 5/23/2014 but didn't install it until last summer so hopefully if there is any kind of fix or warranty it hasn't expired. It took the 12.9 miles I drove it afterwards to fry it, been driving it since then with no speedo.
As far as the issue with the u joints it wasn't you! It happened in 2012 so as far as I am concerned it is water under the bridge. Stuff like that makes me a little leery sometimes though. But I have ordered plenty of stuff from you guys since that incident, so no worries. I will get some pictures this weekend and post them. Thanks again for the help and suggestions.
 

DirtDonk

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No matter what the solution, I would leave it installed until you can let it sit for a couple of days (if that's an option?) anyway. If you're moving it around right now, then you would not be able to even take the old one apart to put a new piece in, if that's all that the solution takes.
Is it a daily driver, or are you just having to move it in and out to clear a space for other vehicles?

Frankly though, I don't think it's going to be that simple. Might take more work at our end. However, that might be a benefit to you, as if we have to send it back to A/A or fiddle with other aspects of the assembly, you might end up with a new one anyway.
If that ends up being the case, a quick(?) swap and you're back to being mobile again.

But let's see what the discussion ends up leading to first. Before we plan logistics that don't make sense.

Paul
 
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377

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Problem resolved, hopefully! Matt at WH hooked me right up with new gears after he spoke to AA. My only question was what about the preload and such. AA told Matt the way the gear installs there is no issue with preload or anything. Kinda worried about that part but, we'll see. I can't say enough good about Matt he went out of his way to help me. Paul and Phil thank you again for your help as always.
 

Viperwolf1

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Problem resolved, hopefully! Matt at WH hooked me right up with new gears after he spoke to AA. My only question was what about the preload and such. AA told Matt the way the gear installs there is no issue with preload or anything. Kinda worried about that part but, we'll see. I can't say enough good about Matt he went out of his way to help me. Paul and Phil thank you again for your help as always.

My only concern is if there is an issue with the preload (wrong shim installed) you'll still have it after putting the new gear in. After you get it together, if it feels too tight, you might call AA again.
 
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377

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Paul, I looked at th instructions that Phil put in one of his posts and realized replacing the gear looks like a simple affair. Phil the preload issue is the only thing that gives me reservations if it is wrong, the same thing could happen again. When I get the gears I will photograph everything. Paul next time you see Matt could you thank him again for me. He even called me back and asked me what address was best for postal service so I might get the parts quicker. He didn't have to do that but it is greatly appreciated.
 
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377

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Paul,
The way Matt described what AA said was the yoke and nut come off then a snap ring. Then the gear slides off? Looking forward to getting everything and cracking things open. If I understand correctly the bearing/preload is at the other end of the output shaft.?
 

Viperwolf1

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Paul,
The way Matt described what AA said was the yoke and nut come off then a snap ring. Then the gear slides off? Looking forward to getting everything and cracking things open. If I understand correctly the bearing/preload is at the other end of the output shaft.?

You don't even need to remove the snap ring. You can see the shim on top of the gear.
 

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377

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Viperwolf ,
Thanks for the pictures! This seems to be getting simpler by the post. I am hoping to have the parts this week and then off to the shop on Sat. I will be sure and post pictures.
 
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