Radius Arm Drop Bracket vs. Long Arms

[Izzy]

I just realized that some of my steering issues might be related to my caster degree. I've been researching the options to correct the angle and I think I have 3 options.

1. Install a Radius Arm drop bracket
2. Install Axle Wedges
3. Install a long arm kit.

There are obviously some cost differences between the 3 and while I'd love to do the long arm conversion, I don't want to just throw money away. With that said, what do you suggest? Pros and cons of the 3 options?

I use this rig for 95% daily on road driving and maybe 5% off road. So I want a rig that is extremely stable and comfortable on the road yet still have the off road capabilities.

Appreciate the help guys.

 

[Joker11]

You can achieve good results by simply using the drop bracket. That can fix the angle of the castor. If you like the rig the way it is, you can even heat up and bend your stock arms to correct the angle. That is almost free to do. Except for the heatin and abeatin. If I were at 95% street use, I wouldnt waste my money on long arms. Just not practical.
I am the opposite so I am going long arms. But I had castor issues before I did my lift and I knew it was going to be worse with a 5.5inch lift.

 

[DirtDonk]

Do you know what your caster is set at currently Izzy? Before you do even an inexpensive fix, it'd be nice to know for sure what you're starting with.
That way you can better track the results too.
How much lift? Good steering angles? Everything else checked and found to be copacetic?
Do you have power steering? You'll want it with more caster.

Not that more caster isn't usually a good thing. Just wanting to make sure that caster is the only thing left. There is such a thing as too much correction too, which could be in too much u-joint angle or harder steering or rougher flat-towing.

I'm with Joker on the drop brackets. No need for arms in your case. You will loose some ground clearance of course, but that may be of no nevermind even when you do go off-road. Depends on what type of terrain you run through.
Another good reason to know what you have now is to know what you can get away with adding. Standard drop brackets are typically good for 4 degrees, so if that's too much, you might want to reconsider or check out the Duff ones which are adjustable to lesser degrees.

Not sure what you mean by wedges. A wedge under a coil spring will only tilt the coil. They're used when there is too much bow in the coil as a result of the lift causing more tilt in the radius arm.
If you mean ball-joint eccentric collars, they're good, but only up to a max of 1.5° of correction. May not be enough if you're having too much trouble.
Did you mean something else?

Good luck.

Paul

 

[mudstud]

He may have meant c-bushingas well.

 

[tatersalad]

I can tell you that I have been running the Duffs adjustable brackets with a 3.5 " suspension lift with power steering and track bar drop for around 20 years now and my rig handles like a champ on the pavement. I dont rock crawl but it does everything I want offroad too.

 

[DJs74]

As mentioned, can you offer some additional specifics about your current suspension?

any lift / how much
C-bushing degree
have you had it to an alignment shop and have any numbers
tires size

just wondering if you know for sure the caster is off or maybe just suspect it is

IMO, DirtDonk is the man in this area (as well as many others too). I had some serious handling issues on my '74 and everyone on here guided me to a hands free, no darting, stable, worry free setup

Depending on what you currently have / don't have, I'd say a good starting point would be:
*get steering link and track bar down and or parallel (track bar bracket & pitman arm)
*new c-bushings
*new radius arm bushings
*upper ball joint adjustable eccentric bushing
*check / replace tie rods & ball joints


Looking forward to some more specifics


DJs74

 

[savage]

I have the James Duffy adjustable drop bracket and like that you have three adjustments you can make to fine tune it. TOP HOLE +1,MIDDLE HOLE +2.5 AND BOTTOM HOLE +4 DEGRES.Plus I have WH adjustable track bar.

 

[Izzy]

Great info guys. My specs are:

3.5" lift
Track Bar riser bracket
My track bar and steering link are in fact parallel
Power Steering (4x4x2 box + explorer pump)

I was having several issues with my rig and just didn't have the time to fix it all due to building a new house so I did something I have never done before, I took my rig to a shop to fix for me. I know, bronco points taken away but it was worth it as I was tired of not being able to drive it and all my free time has been spent on the house.

I had several issues that are being fixed including:

1. Wrong size bolts on my track bar (no idea how long that's been like that)
2. Loose 4x4x2 box giving play in steering
3. Bad prop valve affecting my braking
4. Leaky Airflow affecting my engine performance

Just all around minor issues that were nagging me enough to not drive the rig but subtle enough to make troubleshooting difficult. So the shop found these issues and has been fixing them. In the midst of all this, they decided to check my caster and found that it is 2 degrees off from stock specs.

For now, I asked them to fix everything else while I decide if I want to do the drop bracket (which is what the shop recommended) or do long arms (go big or go home right?)

It's very possible that after fixing everything else, the rig drives normal again and I don't have to do anything. I will know that tomorrow when I hope to pick it back up. But I like to fix things right which is why I asked the question above.

 

[Izzy]

Hey Paul, long time no talk Thanks for chiming in to help, should have known you would

I wanna say the shop said I was at 1 degree and specs call for 3 degree, does that sound right?

 

[DirtDonk]

Hey Iz. Good to get to chat again.

I just got through typing one of my epic novels only to have it deleted as I was ready to hit send! Yikes that'll twist your mind this time of night.

It does sound right. Spec would normally be 2.75 to 4.25, with 3.5 being optimal.
Normal drop brackets would net you 4 more, to put you at, or near +5° which is more than most of us have. Should be great from a caster standpoint with power steering.

I have just over 1 degree and it drives like a car. Well, a heavy, tall, short wheelbase too tall car with big tires that is. ;D
But I have smallish tires (narrow 33's) and smallish wheels (7" wide with 3.5" backspace) so am starting from a good place.

What size tires and wheels on yours? The typical 10 inch wide wheels have a lot of "leverage" against the steering system, so that can aggravate things.

What kind of steering linkage? If the 4x4x2 box is mounted too far back, you can impart more "rotation" into the tie-rod which leads to a more vague feeling while steering. Especially with older, looser rod ends.

The right bolt in the trackbar will be a good thing.
Make sure that the lower bolt has not cracked it's tack weld too. If it does, it'll wobble just slightly (hard to see) and cause some minor wandering.

How's the age and condition of the tires? Even if new and good, make sure the air pressure is even side-to-side and not too much.

That's about it. Had a few more the first time, but can't think of them this time around.
If I remember them I'll add to it later.

Good luck. Hope it works out and gets things back to the straight and narrow.

Paul

 

[Izzy]

Thanks again Paul. Your insight is always extremely valuable.

I am running 33x12.50s on 15x10" wheels.
Steering is upgraded to the 1 tons with heim joints

I will check the welds to make sure no issues there.

Tires are about 1 year old, maybe a bit more but haven't had much road time. They have been sitting though I move it around\rotate the tires to prevent any flat spots. I will have to check for this.

To answer a previous question, Duff sells some leaf shims that help correct angle but sounds like the drop brackets are a much better solution.

Can you have too much caster? If I'm at 1 now and I get the drop bracket that adds 4 taking me to 5, is that a problem?

 

[DirtDonk]

I thought that's what you might have meant with axle wedges. But those don't effect caster or anything else up front.
They're strictly for correcting rear driveshaft and pinion angles to avoid vibration and u-joint damage.
You can twist the rear all you want and it won't change the caster reading (tilt of the ball-joint centerline) at all.

Yes, you can probably have too much caster. But you usually run out of pinion angle before then. And no, I don't believe that 5 will be too much. The full-size Broncos were spec'ed out to have between 6 and 8 degrees, so while that's a completely different beast, I think you'll be ok.

But that brings me back to one of the things I forgot I had mentioned in my unfortunately deleted post. Front pinion angle.
You need to look at yours now, and see if you think adding another 4 degrees is going to put you in a bad spot, u-joint-wise.
By the way, did you mention what degree C-bushings you have now? If so I don't remember seeing it. If you don't have 7 degree bushings in there, you should.
If you don't though, you now have a choice of either the drop brackets OR c-bushings.
Or both, if it works out your pinion can handle it.

Paul

 

[01Dudley]

Our shims are for the rear leaf and will not help with your front end issues. Although our drop brackets 5430 look to be exactly what you need.

Thanks again Paul. Your insight is always extremely valuable.

I am running 33x12.50s on 15x10" wheels.
Steering is upgraded to the 1 tons with heim joints

I will check the welds to make sure no issues there.

Tires are about 1 year old, maybe a bit more but haven't had much road time. They have been sitting though I move it around\rotate the tires to prevent any flat spots. I will have to check for this.

To answer a previous question, Duff sells some leaf shims that help correct angle but sounds like the drop brackets are a much better solution.

Can you have too much caster? If I'm at 1 now and I get the drop bracket that adds 4 taking me to 5, is that a problem?

 

[Broncobowsher]

The red beast?
That is a '76/77 front axle even though it has GM disk conversion up front. The brakes were robbed before the axle was acquired.
It should already have the 7° bushings in it. At that it was right at the edge of what the front driveshaft angle could take. If you want any more caster it will have to be a cut and turn the kunckles. The other fixes (long arms, drop brackets) will fix caster but will push that U-joint angle too far.

The lighter 5.0 engine may also be a factor. It was pretty good with the 351. But the extra weight on the front would compress those light front springs and that would give a touch more caster. If you just need a quick simple fix until you get the new place up and running you may try swapping the front springs for a set of 2½" lift. that would bring a little caster back until you have time and space to really dig into it.

 

[Izzy]

Paul, that's it.

Duff, I am looking at your adjustable drop brackets for sure.

Tim, Thank you for the input. I picked the rig back up from the shop today and it's running great and much more stable than it was before so I don't think the caster is going to cause me any issues for now or ever. I'm going to drive it for a few weeks, take the time to get settled into the house and get my shop organized and then as you said, dig in for some major mods which might include long arms. It is time to freshen up the springs both front and back so will probably tackle that with it.

I did get to build a 30x40 shop at my new place so I'm excited to get to work in it