Recovery gear

[ntsqd]

I should point out that I'm assuming that it won't be me who does the rigging for a yank. That yank that I mentioned above it was my co-driver who did the rigging and time was tight enough that he didn't climb back into the cab. Figuratively whacked me on the arse and yelled GO! To be fair to him, he did his best to avert what happened. He just didn't have much time to look for something better as a whole gaggle of Class 1's and Trophy Trucks could be seen heading our way at race speed.

So let's talk about tree straps in particular. 2" wide? 3" wide? 4" wide? How long? Seems like most used to be only 6 foot, but I'm seeing some that are longer. I stumbled onto this one that is 15' long: https://hi-lift.com/product/hi-lift-reflective-loop-recovery-strap/ The very few times that I've been around one in use it seemed like the 6' length was a struggle as they were too short, but maybe that's the exception rather than the rule?

 

[Yeller]

I think it depends on where you wheel as to the length of tree straps, I've found 6' too be too short, occasionally 8' to be too short, but more than 10' is just a whipping and too long. I have some 2", 3" and a 4", my faves are 2" and 8-10' long. have never had any issues with bark damage with a 2". I do believe they should be polyester lifting type straps, nylon like an old school recovery strap stretch and trap bark in the webbing.

 

[sprdv1]

I think it depends on where you wheel as to the length of tree straps, I've found 6' too be too short, occasionally 8' to be too short, but more than 10' is just a whipping and too long. I have some 2", 3" and a 4", my faves are 2" and 8-10' long. have never had any issues with bark damage with a 2". I do believe they should be polyester lifting type straps, nylon like an old school recovery strap stretch and trap bark in the webbing.

would not hurt to have 2, 3 in diff lengths just to be safe

 

[ntsqd]

Even in an FSB space becomes a big consideration. In an EB it's a whole different level of careful consideration of the options. Figuring out what covers the most uses with the least tools/parts/strap/etc. is a fine art.

I'm thinking two polyester lifting slings; a 3" wide X 6-8 feet long, and a 2" wide at about 10' might be good options. If the 3" isn't long enough you can use it where it contacts the tree to keep the psi loading down and use the 2" connected 2X end to end or even end to middle to end (dog-bones, soft shackles) to extend the 3" w/o getting too long overall.

Anyone know where I can find dog-bones made of carbon fiber, carbon-kevlar, or similar? I have one in aluminum and it seemed like a great idea until recently. One made of carbon fiber might weigh enough less to not be a missile if some part of the rigging were to fail.
EDIT: I realized that I know a guy. I've asked him about making one or more. They're a quite different shape than what he's used to making, so I don't know that he'll be interested.

 

[Yeller]

Even in an FSB space becomes a big consideration. In an EB it's a whole different level of careful consideration of the options. Figuring out what covers the most uses with the least tools/parts/strap/etc. is a fine art.

I'm thinking two polyester lifting slings; a 3" wide X 6-8 feet long, and a 2" wide at about 10' might be good options. If the 3" isn't long enough you can use it where it contacts the tree to keep the psi loading down and use the 2" connected 2X end to end or even end to middle to end (dog-bones, soft shackles) to extend the 3" w/o getting too long overall.

Anyone know where I can find dog-bones made of carbon fiber, carbon-kevlar, or similar? I have one in aluminum and it seemed like a great idea until recently. One made of carbon fiber might weigh enough less to not be a missile if some part of the rigging were to fail.
EDIT: I realized that I know a guy. I've asked him about making one or more. They're a quite different shape than what he's used to making, so I don't know that he'll be interested.

Guess my google ninja skills went out with the toliet paper this morning.... I know what a dogbone is, but do to my mentioned failure got any pics to help someone that might not know? We've beat up equipment pretty good in this thread, I'd like to see more techniques.

One thing that I'm always dumbfounded is the inability to rig safely and quickly making recoveries take longer than necessary and sometimes downright dangerous. A pet peeve of mine is taking forever to right a rolled vehicle. Get it back up, the faster you get it up the less issues you have with oil hydro locking the engine and the less likely it is to leak fluids on the ground. There is normally more than enough people checking on the people, 1 or 2 of those need to be rigging the recovery. Most of the time the passengers don't even need to get out, leave them in there until is back up right. No need to bang your head or get hurt, it's almost always safer inside.

 

[ntsqd]

Dog-bone is the term that I've seen applied to a specialized bar used when extending straps. Slip the whole eye thru the eye of another strap, feed the dog-bone thru the first eye and pull the connection tight. I've also seen them used when you can do it this way: http://www.offroaders.com/cheap-tricks/connecting-2-tow-straps/ although frankly I like the idea of a rolled-up magazine or towel in that set-up better.

I've noticed that too. It's one thing to take enough time to make sure that the pull is set up safely. It's another to just piddle around and not get it done. More than once it was a lack of experience that slowed things down. Questioning if the plan was the best way. The two fastest recoveries that I've witnessed were where a retired iron-worker was in the group and he knew exactly what he was doing in rigging the recovery and directed those involved in what to do. The other was even simpler. The driver put it in reverse and drove it back onto it's tires. That was on the Backdoor out at the Hammers.

 

[Yeller]

Rollovers take on a whole different meaning when you start competing, it is not if but when and sometimes it is on purpose, and there's no asking for help until you are committed that you can't salvage it on your own. More than once as a spotter I've told my driver to drive until it rolls over, turn the wheel a specific direction, shift to forward or reverse and floor it, and it will come back to its tires if you are in the right spot. It is like anything else; it is all in conditioning and what you're comfortable with and the type of equipment you use. Rolling over is perfectly acceptable in my buggy, it is not in my bronco, if it happens, I won't be mad but that doesn't mean I'm willing to do it on purpose like I am with the buggy.

I often wish I had the time, drive, and ability to do video demonstrations of recovery scenarios and how to properly rig and get them done. I have rolled my buggy over in a parking lot to show how to properly recover a roll over from beginning to end but it is not the same as being on a trail. When I participated in an active club, we would do things on purpose just to teach others, I need to start doing that again.....

I have a goal anytime we have a roll over on the trail, I want that vehicle righted in less than 3 minutes. That's aggressive but it is important. Besides the actual down time do to having other things to take care of there is the environmental land use aspect of it. A vehicle laying on its side, typically is leaking some fluid somewhere. Those leaks give ammunition to those that don't want us to have access to land and gives them talking points for that access to become denied. If anyone thinks that is just a California problem, you are sadly mistaken, it even puts the private parks in the east at risk. Have to be responsible for our own actions and sometimes we are our own worst enemy. Take the time to learn how to do recoveries safely and quickly, it will take some of the stress out of doing it. If I'm around, ask and I'll be happy to do something dumb for you to recover me from

 

[sprdv1]

I have a goal anytime we have a roll over on the trail, I want that vehicle righted in less than 3 minutes. That's aggressive but it is important. Besides the actual down time do to having other things to take care of there is the environmental land use aspect of it. A vehicle laying on its side, typically is leaking some fluid somewhere. Those leaks give ammunition to those that don't want us to have access to land and gives them talking points for that access to become denied. If anyone thinks that is just a California problem, you are sadly mistaken, it even puts the private parks in the east at risk. Have to be responsible for our own actions and sometimes we are our own worst enemy. Take the time to learn how to do recoveries safely and quickly, it will take some of the stress out of doing it. If I'm around, ask and I'll be happy to do something dumb for you to recover me from

good goal. The person/s that rolled probably appreciate that timeline too right

 

[Yeller]

As some of you know I have a pile of used winches…. Well the 20+ year old abused Ramsey winch on my J Truck had decided it was done. I assumed it was because it’s been swimming a few times and it was full of water, it was not, brake and gear box was clean as new. Other than some serious corrosion on the terminals I couldn’t find anything wrong with the motor. But it certainly didn’t function. I did an exhaustive search and found a replacement Prestolite motor for a very reasonable price. As usual I did a very poor job of pic taking. So the winch is now ready for installation and should be good for another number of years.

 

[ntsqd]

Next time you're out this way we could put the armature on my growler and see if it's any good.

 

[Yeller]

Next time you're out this way we could put the armature on my growler and see if it's any good.

I’ll keep that in mind. Actually for the cost of the new motor I didn’t diagnose any further than check for resistance in any of the cables and confirm the contactor switch was functioning.

I did learn that I needed to remove the gears out of the gear box to be able to get the motor shaft aligned with the drive inside the brake. The internal drive falls down making it all but impossible to line up.

 

[blade]

Lots of great information here. Thanks to @Yeller for starting this and everyone else for adding info.

 

[ntsqd]

Circling back on the carbon fiber dog bone idea; he wasn't interested. Instead I bought a nylon dog bone, a "nylabone". As in a dog chew toy. Light weight, reasonably strong, inexpensive. I need to rig up a test of it and see how it works in a controlled situation.

 

[Yeller]

Circling back to this as I've committed to an add an item to my recovery gear. I love kinetic recovery ropes, properly used incredible amount of force is generated to extricate a stuck vehicle, and not over done or properly done is damage free to both the pulling and pullee vehicles. One of the draw backs is they are long, which is part of what makes them effective, the longer they are the more power they store for the given input, like pulling a releasing a short rubber band or a long rubber band, the longer stores more energy. I've carried the compromise 20' length for years, the industry standard is 30', but I find for most situations the 30' to be too long to use effectively, not to mention they get unwieldly trying to store them. I have only used it for a kinetic recovery a couple of times, but I've used it to drag out a dead or impaired vehicle many, many times. It is a fantastic tool for that but it tends to be too long, even to the point of nearly rolling over the towed vehicle a few times going around corners. You can double up the rope so it is shorter, but it loses a lot of its cushion by doubling its strength.

So, the solution is a shorter rope. I can't take credit for the idea or the idea for the rope, that belongs to Rory Irish of Trail Mater fame from Moab UT he had a 10' recovery rope built just for pulling dead or impaired vehicles. I got to try it out personally recently and the 10' length is perfect, the 3/4" diameter makes it supple to both vehicles and you're not hooking and rehooking for every tight corner, ledge, or break over, I'm a fan. I now have a 10' rope in both the Broncno and the J Truck, the length and girth makes them easy to store. In the Broncno it fits under the rear seat, the only item I've ever found to fit there, and more importantly be able to get out without removing the seat, in the J Truck it fits nicely in the toolbox.

Side note: I've really gotten where I don't like pulling with a flat strap for anything other than a steady pull like with a winch. I've had the "stretch" get pulled out of them and they get rigid and don't cushion the pull any longer, the kinetic ropes don't lose that stretch.

 

[ntsqd]

Are you buying or building your ropes?

Years ago I built a static tow rope from a ~12' long rem of Ø5/8" Amsteel. I've never had cause to use it when it was with me, although we came close that day on Notom Rd. in the mud when the front drive wasn't locked-in.

 

[Yeller]

Are you buying or building your ropes?

Years ago I built a static tow rope from a ~12' long rem of Ø5/8" Amsteel. I've never had cause to use it when it was with me, although we came close that day on Notom Rd. in the mud when the front drive wasn't locked-in.

I'm buying the kinetic ropes. you can spend as much or as little as you want, they all work and unless they have been run over on a hard surface like rock, pavement etc. I've not seen one break. Static lines like winch extensions, pull ropes, I make those. For whatever reason I've been able to buy premade winch lines for less than half of what I can buy bulk rope for so I buy those and cut them up. I used to make tree savers from winch line with a guard on them, then Arkansas passed a law where they had to be a minimum of 2" wide, and I just started buying lift straps for them. I have been contemplating learning to make my own soft shackles, I have fids for 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" rope just need to play with it. I think a built-in soft shackle on a winch line would be an awesome addition, which Freedom Winch Line and Yankum both offer.

On that day I was ready to hop out and grab my trusty kinetic rope, till I saw the front not pulling. Getting that engaged was a much simpler solution LOL.

 

[ntsqd]

Not to mention a lot cleaner for the both of us!

 

[Broncobowsher]

Many years ago I acquired a 10' lifting sling. It was retired due to a couple nicks exposing the "do not use" warning threads.
Being a lifting strap, it is not a kinetic energy device. I think that 10' strap is one of the best things I ever used on the trail. Too often a 30', or even a 20' is too long. When someone gets hung up in a turn, or a climb with a turn at the top. You can't give them a tug. That 10' just does it. Ignore the expired part, never yanked on it that hard. It was a helping hand. You could also toss it around a tree as a tree saver.

 

[gnpenning]

Rory has been converting more than a few to the shorter rope and for good reasons. Nice point to big up @Yeller.

Something else, for others that might use a winch extension. It's best if your winch line is longer than the extension for that time you have everything out to an anchor. If your extension is longer you wouldn't be able to use the anchor once you remove the extension. This may never be a concern for some. For those that do, hopefully you have another shorter strap.

Did you do any videos Steve

 

[Yeller]

@gnpenning I do not, often I barely even take pics, I probably should. Part of my issue is I have zero desire to edit video. I do enjoy writing, and have written a few published articles, it’s just hard for me to focus long enough to get them completed, compile photos and get them submitted, 4Low will publish anything I write, if I’d just get it done.