Should i get EFI?

[1969]

I'm considering the Howell TBI as well. It's probably not what I'd want on a hot, modified engine, but for a bone-stock 302 reports are that the everyday drivability is good. I've heard that the open-loop results on a dyno aren't great, but closed loop (with the system adjusting based on the oxygen sensor input) is fine.

I’ve read that Howell will tune the computer to your engine.

 

[FordFarmer]

To me it's a no-brainer. The carburetor and the three speed were the greatest weaknesses on the EB. Sure an auto light two barrel can be tuned and will work great, but you're always messing with it, the automatic choke if it has one, and if you backfire you often have to replace the power valve.
EFI is a true game changer, it won't flood off road, it'll start an idle at almost any temperature, it'll improve your fuel economy and make your EB run great!

-JB

This hasn’t been my experience. In 11 years I’ve had exactly one problem with my carb and it was debris from the fuel tank that caused the problem (plugged the screen under the needle seat). I put a Napa rebuild kit on it then since I already had it apart. It’s been perfect ever since. Auto choke works great. Daily drove it for years. Cold starts, hot starts, all good. The stock 2 bbl is super simple and very reliable. My rig is pretty much stock and I don’t do any aggressive wheeling. If the OP does then JB’s opinion may well be more useful than mine.

 

[4xfun]

No one has mentioned that you need to make sure that your thermostat is working property, that the timing is set correctly, and that the carburetor is adjusted. Unless the timing is set properly, the advance working correctly, and the thermostat opening and closing at the right temperature, efi will not help. Look up thunderhead289 on youtube to get basic explanations and tips of the setup of timing and carb. Fullsizebronco has a decent writeup on setting the timiing. https://www.fullsizebronco.com/threads/how-to-properly-set-the-timing-on-a-302-or-351.168214/

A service manual will also help.

 

[67EB_in_619]

Yes. Yes you should.

 

[nvrstuk]

Howell stuff... well, I am familiar with it when wheelers wanted "EFI and bolt on simplicity" a couple decades back. I have no idea if they've improved what they were selling decades ago but I don't know of a single Howell setup back then that wasn't running extra rich so Howell wouldn't have any customers running combo's that were too lean and causing potential lean issues. They worked but they weren't much.

Just a heads up.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Howell stuff... well, I am familiar with it when wheelers wanted "EFI and bolt on simplicity" a couple decades back. I have no idea if they've improved what they were selling decades ago but I don't know of a single Howell setup back then that wasn't running extra rich so Howell wouldn't have any customers running combo's that were too lean and causing potential lean issues. They worked but they weren't much.

Just a heads up.

That's what I remember as well. The closed loop worked pretty good, but get on it and go open loop and it was just shy of rolling coal.

 

[ntsqd]

I would sooner do a JY parts/system TBI swap, maybe with a custom chip and maybe not. I know of Howell, but I deliberately did not mention them in my post above. I contend that a 305cid donor for a 302 and and a 350cid donor for a 351 are about as tailored as one would need to get unless you're looking for the system to control IGN timing as well. Then you're going to need a custom chip anyway and the donor's displacement isn't likely to matter.
I'll post this as a source and not a recommendation because I've never done business with him: https://harristuning.com/Tbi/

 

[serial car restorer]

I contend that a 305cid donor for a 302 and and a 350cid donor for a 351 are about as tailored as one would need

Any references on what parts to scrounge from a donor 305 SBC, and what adapters I'd need to fab or buy to put it on my 302?

Another possibility, if Howell TBIs run rich, might be to use the 289 setup on a 302. Howell says the program is different between the two, so it seems to me the 289 package on a 302 might be less rich?

 

[ntsqd]

They're nearly all the same. The most desired ECU has "4474" (I *think*) as the last four numbers in it's ID. Consult my link above as that page used to have all of that sort of info. There is a separate chip inside that has the engine specific programming in it. I noticed that my link above says 350HP is the upper limit, he would know better than I do. I suspect that to get to 350HP that a lot of the components need to be tweaked pretty hard. In my mind and experience that tends to make for an unstable system.

Can buy TBI to intake adapters. Might need to adapt first to a Holley 2bbl flange first as those TBI adapters are easier to find. At least they were when I was gathering the parts to do a TBI swap on the Valiant.

I doubt the small difference in displacement between a 289 and a 302 is enough to lean it out enough. I could be wrong, but it's not something that I'd encourage.

Not long ago I was reading a thread on FSB where some guy was really pushing the Variable Venturi carbs that Ford used just pre EFI as the best possible solution to staying carb'd and being able to run in a large range of altitudes. I shudder to think of all of the pain he's causing with those posts.
So, with that in mind I'm going to say again that the TBI isn't the best possible solution to all possible problems. Just that it is a simple system that can be made to work well if your goals are reasonable and are within it's range of abilities. If you want to push the system beyond it's stock capabilities you'll need to look into driving the TBI unit itself with some other ECU as well as enhancing or upgrading most all of the mechanical parts in the system. There used to be quite a subset of megasquirt users running them on TBI systems.

 

[raleigh_bronco]

Another 1st. Gen Sniper here with no issues.

 

[pcf_mark]

Does anyone have experience with factory EFI manifold and injectors run using aftermarket copmputers, Like Megasquirt or others like that

I do. I have a 94 Mustang EFI hard parts - manifold, throttle body, sensors and Explorer front dress and EDIS. I have been using MegaSquirt 2 v3.57 for 10 years. It took me a few weekends to rework the harness I cut out of the car and combine with a harness and relay board from DIYAutotune. I was shocked when it started the second crank! I also have a MicroSquirt controlling my 4R70W which is also connected to MS2 for TPS and MAP. The tuning product is called TunerStudio it is pretty easy to use and make changes and submit to ECM on the fly.

 

[serial car restorer]

Can buy TBI to intake adapters. Might need to adapt first to a Holley 2bbl flange first as those TBI adapters are easier to find.

So adapters to use the stock Ford 2BBL manifold shouldn't be hard to come by.

...it is a simple system that can be made to work well if your goals are reasonable and are within it's range of abilities.

I think that pretty much describes my expectations. Totally stock 302 in a Bronco that will be used for street and mild back road use (hiking, camping, etc.)

I keep looking at kits for this, as I'm not familiar enough with what would be needed to roll my own. Ask me about 2-stroke ATV slide-valve carbs, dual SU set ups, or even Bosch mechanical FI on old German cars and I could set them all up. But TBI is new to me, and I don't yet know what inputs it needs, or how to scrounge or build a harness for it. Be nice if there was a detailed DIY guide for TBI conversions.

 

[ntsqd]

I thought that I might have the ECU number wrong, it is 7747. My lexdysia strikes again!

Try: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gm-ecm-pcm-conversion/tbi-efi-conversion.html
And: https://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-I...-Fuel-Injection-for-any-Carbed-Engine!-HOW-TO!

In those days GM tended to wire the ECU loom entirely separately from the rest of the engine bay loom and only tied into the main harness for the things it need (power, run, maybe start, etc.). My experience with the loom for the Valiant was that the loom itself told me what was needed. Been a while, but what I recall is that it needs an O2 sensor, vehicle speed signal (some consider this optional, after reading up on it I do not), RPM, MAP, and coolant temp.

 

[pcf_mark]

I will say buying parts in a jam is my #1 concern. Howell has been around forever and uses all GM stuff I think so you can get it anywhere. I used all Ford parts and it has been great. I have lost EDIS module and IAT just got another one from the yard for $5. If my MicroSquirt goes I am going to be stuck but I think the same goes for any ECM - even a 9L. You need the exact one and it has to be configured. I can load my tune on any MS2 unit and be running but I am not finding that at a parts store!

TBI is really old tech I would stay with a carb if that was your only option. You really want port injection and ignition control as a baseline to make it work well enough to be worth the time.

 

[ntsqd]

Based on the OP's statements I strongly disagree. A carb is considerably OLDER tech.

 

[maxellfullmoon]

What kind of fuel are you guys running with your EFI? I run pure gas with anything with a carb. Gets expensive and is a pain to find.

 

[DirtDonk]

By pure you mean no ethanol I presume?
Most of the EFI systems are fine with up to 15% I believe. Probably more.
If that’s what you mean, then I’d say you have been doing yourself a big favor all this time.
Lots of horror stories about gummed and buggered old fuel systems running e-whatever in their carbs and pumps.
Especially so if they regularly sit for extended periods of time.

 

[ntsqd]

The Super Comp Dragster that I crewed on decades ago ran on alcohol. We never left any alcohol in it's fuel system after the races. The car owner had a system where he could easily plug in a small container with gasoline in it and we'd idle the engine off of that for a few mins. and then drain the fuel tank.

If a guy had two tanks in the Bronco it wouldn't be too difficult to run on the main, with whatever gas was easy, and then when not far from home switch to the aux tank that has pure gasoline in it.

Regardless, you'd be doing yourself a favor to replace all of the hose with the emissions barrier type of fuel hose. It's not inexpensive, but making the change will save you from problems.

 

[maxellfullmoon]

Yeah I was talking about non ethanol gas. I saw what ethanol gas did to my stock 2 barrel. When I changed it out I started running non ethanol.

If a guy had two tanks in the Bronco it wouldn't be too difficult to run on the main, with whatever gas was easy, and then when not far from home switch to the aux tank that has pure gasoline in it.

That may be a good idea. I'll think about that.

 

[Madgyver]

Based on the OP's statements I strongly disagree. A carb is considerably OLDER tech.

Older tech that works simple. No sensors. ECM. Being on an island with no reliable tuners makes a difference also. we go to remote areas that we can't risk getting stuck. Carb is simple.
Plus the self learning kits will get confused on radical cam profiles that has low vacuum signal at idle.