Starter issues

[Kbpony]

I have an ‘89 5.0 with a Chevy tbi conversion in my ‘77. I originally used the starter that came with the engine(mustang) until it died a year ago. Then I replaced it with another EB starter. Since then, I’ve noticed the Bronco starter did not seem to spin the engine over as quickly as the Mustang starter did. Now, if the battery isn’t all the way charged, it won’t spin the engine over fast enough to start. I plan to have the battery tested to remove that variable, and if it checks ok, I’ll probadly replace the starter. For those of you more in the know than me, is there really much difference in the starters, or am I chasing a wild goose?

 

[DirtDonk]

There is actually quite a bit of difference between the two designs.
However you could have also gotten a partially defective new starter the last time as well. Maybe it just wasn’t quite up to snuff.
These days that is always a possibility no matter what the part or type of part is.
Personally I would think going back with an 89 (is it out of a Mustang or something else?) starter would be beneficial for all the normal reasons.
Less battery current required to spin the motor, smaller and lighter, and all of the benefits that smaller and lighter give.

 

[SteveL]

Yes there's a difference. The cheap lifetime warranty starters from the auto zone type stores suck. Go to the local napa and ask for the better line of starter. Sadly even napa started dealing the cheap crap to compete with the big chain stores so you have to ask for the better version. The other option is going higher end or a mini starter from a high performance shop like summit

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, if the battery passes the load test, and you should do this anyway, clean all the terminals and grounds. Plus, you can remove the starter and have that tested. Good luck

 

[toddz69]

I have an ‘89 5.0 with a Chevy tbi conversion in my ‘77. I originally used the starter that came with the engine(mustang) until it died a year ago. Then I replaced it with another EB starter. Since then, I’ve noticed the Bronco starter did not seem to spin the engine over as quickly as the Mustang starter did. Now, if the battery isn’t all the way charged, it won’t spin the engine over fast enough to start. I plan to have the battery tested to remove that variable, and if it checks ok, I’ll probadly replace the starter. For those of you more in the know than me, is there really much difference in the starters, or am I chasing a wild goose?

There isn't much difference between the '89 Mustang starter and the '77 Bronco starter - they're of the same design and construction. If you test things and find your battery is fine and you want to replace the starter, I'd recommend going with one of the mini, high-torque PMGR starters that Ford started using in their products in 1992. Much easier to install (a lot lighter and easier bolt access) and in my experience they last a lot longer. A few slight wiring changes but those are easily handled. Most vendors sell them as kits now too.

Todd Z.

 

[DirtDonk]

I don’t have a book in front of me Todd, but I thought by 89 they were already using the PMGR starter from the factory.
If that’s not the case then absolutely I would update to one of those too.
The other thing that comes to mind is that for several years the mustang set ups used only one part number starter. Don’t know if this was because they only came with manual transmissions, or just used the same starter whether you had a manual transmission or an automatic.
But since it sounds like the OP is using a truck bell housing then obviously it absolutely has to be matching the transmission.

So Kbpony, is your 77 running a manual or automatic?
Either way presumably your replacement starter matched your transmission?

 

[jamesroney]

I don’t have a book in front of me Todd, but I thought by 89 they were already using the PMGR starter from the factory.
If that’s not the case then absolutely I would update to one of those too.
The other thing that comes to mind is that for several years the mustang set ups used only one part number starter. Don’t know if this was because they only came with manual transmissions, or just used the same starter whether you had a manual transmission or an automatic.
But since it sounds like the OP is using a truck bell housing then obviously it absolutely has to be matching the transmission.

So Kbpony, is your 77 running a manual or automatic?
Either way presumably your replacement starter matched your transmission?

No, @toddz69 got it right. Gear reduction starters happened in 1992 in the Fox Platform. That's why there's a different harness in the 92+ 5.0 SEFI for the solenoid wire. He has to be running the AOD / 4R70 / C4 offset, or else there is no Fox 5.0 starter that will work. If if fact he is actually using an 89 Mustang starter, then he is using the Motorcraft E4DZ-1102-BRM against an AOD 164 tooth flexplate. No other combination works.

There is no "automatic vs manual" starter in the FOX Mustang domain. It's only auto vs manual in the Bronco, and 1965-71 Full size and intermediates using the C5AE-A bell. I just happen to have all three ring gears on the bench. Left is a Fox 5.0 157T Manual, Right is a Bronco 164T Manual, and the Rear is the Explorer 5.0 4R70W. You can see that the depth is the same for the FOX manual and Auto.

And yeah, the gear reduction starter is about 1000x better.

 

[Kbpony]

I’m running the stock C4 Bronco bell-housing, and the starter from the Mustang was a little smaller in diameter. It had a tab out the back(toward front of truck) for the starter wire. It does not seem to be a gear reduction starter. The Bronco starter had the stud for the starter wire.