Starting Issue -New Info 1/1/20

[BoureeOne]

So I pulled all the plugs this weekend. All 8 were fouled. Pics attached. I installed 4 new plugs, and cleaned 4 plugs thoroughly. I also installed a new coil, new dist cap and new rotor. After changing everything, still some trouble to get it started, but eventually did. Let it get up to running temp. Set the initial timing to 12btdc. Don't have a digital tach, so it is hard to adjust the idle/mixture screws per the directions of looking for changes of 40rpms. Throttle was very responsive once running. I could turn it off, and it would start right back up. But when I went back over there today, I could not get it to start. It feels like to me the carb is not getting enough fuel into the engine. Its a brand new Edelbrock 14073, manual choke.

 

[Jfryjfry]

Starting fluid will answer that question.

Is it squirting fluid when you pump the throttle?

 

[BoureeOne]

Starting fluid will answer that question.

Is it squirting fluid when you pump the throttle?

Yes...……….

 

[Master Chief]

I think you may have the wrong carb, meaning it is too big for your engine. Dyno results showed that a 600 CFM was too big on my 331 stroker. We put an Edelbrock 1404 on it and picked up better performance in both HP and torque. I now have an Edelbrock 500 CFM AVS2 (p/n 1902) on it.

I still have the 1404 that I ran for a year on this engine. They sell new for $350.00 ... https://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/1404/10002/-1 I'll sell it to you for $225.00 plus shipping if you want it. PM me if interested.

Roger

 

[DirtDonk]

Pull the plugs again and check for fouling. Maybe they fouled up while you were running it the other day and then just did not want to work properly when you tried to start it again yesterday.

I agree that the carb "might" be too big, but that depends on what your 347 is set up as. What cam, heads and how high do you want to rev it. But even with too big a carb for efficiency, it should still start and run. Use the timing light again to test for consistent spark to all 8 cylinders.

As you saw before, a fouled plug that keeps the spark from jumping the gap consistently (or at all) will effect how the light works. Just because a spark is available at the distributor end, you won't see a light pulse if the spark is not passing through the wire and jumping the plug gap.

It's very possible your spark is too weak, but since you started this thread you have all the new components on and have bypassed the resistor?
Running vacuum advance? Was the timing set with the vacuum advance disconnected?

Paul

 

[jagbucket]

get an inline spark tester and look at the color of the spark only a few $ and could point you in the right direction i would test at both ends of the wires if possible, those wires look great but you never know.

 

[gr8scott]

Looks like you're running full manifold vacuum to your distributor. Try switching it over to the timed port or disconnect it altogether.

 

[BoureeOne]

I some how keep fouling all the plugs.

 

[BoureeOne]

Cleaned all the plugs. Sprayed starter fluid in to start. Able to keep it running with small squirts of starter fluid. The second I use the throttle on the card to try and keep it running, flames come out the carb.

 

[BoureeOne]

Confirmed firing order 15426378

 

[nvrstuk]

Hold it...too many inconsistencies here... is it running well when it's running or not?


Post 21 says running great once it starts.

Post 29 says it shoots flames out the carb after it starts

without any changes to the engine...


Would like to help but... is it running or not now?

 

[nvrstuk]

Last couple posts lead towards timing issues due to flames coming out the carb...this should only happen when you have ignition spark (intake valve open) coming up out of the cylinder into the manifold/carb... back your timing off to a safe 8deg. (when you get it running or just ever so gently retard the timing w/o it running).

Now, flooding issue... the carb might be too big for optimum performance BUT it is not so big that your engine won't run and run dang good actually. We used to run carbs that were too big ALL the time back in the muscle car days... no issues starting, running, never fouling plugs- ever! We just didn't know better back then!

So, why are you fouling plugs? It takes a lot of fuel to do this on a V-8 as the fuel must be literally pouring out of the carb to enter into the intake and make it's way to all the plugs-not just a couple- enough to foul them... PUMPING the daylights out of the carb trying to start it when NOT cranking it is usually the biggest culprit.

Pull all your plugs again, clean/dry them off. Then BEFORE putting the plugs back in, you need to get the fuel out of the cylinders...

CAREFUL here... DISCLAIMER HERE...

You MUST disconnect your ignition system to eliminate ANY chance of spark ANYWHERE... even the starter can cause enough spark to ignite all the potential fuel in the cylinders... yes, seen it happen-not some YouTube video either, but real time.

So, with the plugs out, the ignition coil/system totally disconnected , crank the engine over to potentially shoot gas out the cylinders. yeah, seen this happen too- real time.

Put plugs in, fire it up...

I think your carb is leaking or boiling over when you shut it off (maybe) OR when you go to start it up after it's been sitting (like your post #29 I think), you are flooding it.

You're in the south, not too cold... shouldn't need much if any choke but you do need a richer idle/choke circuit to help it start when cold...maybe a couple throttle pumps AS YOU CRANK IT over....

After 2 days of your Bronco not running, open the hood, pull the air filter, and see if there is fuel squirting out of the accelator pump jets when looking into the carb while moving the throttle...I'll bet nothing happens because the carb has lost/leaked all the gas out of the bowls...

Next, have someone inside with the key crank the engine over doing NOTHING else for almost 30 seconds. Perform the same accelerator pump test to see if the fuel pump (manual-not electric) has now had a chance to fill the float bowl.

If not, crank it again for 20-30 seconds then repeat the visual throttle linkage movement to look for gas squirting into the carb.... this will help narrow down some possible issues...

Good luck

 

[DirtDonk]

What nvrstuk said. For an engine like ours to foul plugs that quickly, you're either trying to feed it too much gas, and maybe even oil, OR your ignition is not providing enough spark to keep the plugs even remotely clean.

I would certainly test the spark, but clean things out first like was described.
Make sure your PCV system is functioning to suck contaminant/vapors out of the crankcase and if you haven't already, replace the plugs.
No reason not to keep the old ones if they're cleaning up nice, but while going through all this trouble I would not want to be relying on thrice-cleaned plugs to deliver a reasonable spark every time. Seen too many that after fouling and cleaning one too many times, just don't want to work well anymore.

Guess it's time too, to re-read the entire thread to jog memories of what all is going on, and what you've done. Have forgotten some of the details already.

Paul

 

[BoureeOne]

Well, got it started. Was a combination of timing ( way too retarded ) and carb set way to rich from the factory. Thanks for the help.

 

[nvrstuk]

Glad you're up and running...

 

[gr8scott]

X2. I wonder if you accidentally set your timing with the vacuum advance plugged into full manifold vacuum, as it shows in the video. That would make it way retarded. If you haven't already, you should move it to the timed port on the carb (passenger side).

 

[BoureeOne]

Well the issues continue. I adjusted the timing and air/fuel mixture yesterday. It seemed to run well. I could shut it off and could crank it right back up. So I wanted to go by today to see how it started when cold. It would not start. I started pulling plugs, and they are all fouled again. Plugs are covered in a black soot. Could the cylinders be so full of this soot that it is fouling the plugs overnight? My fuel pressure is a little high, around 7psi. Could this be adding to the problem? Someone mentioned before that they thought the 750 carb was too big for this motor ( 347 Stroker, motha-thumper cam, original iron heads. ), could that have something to do with it?

 

[nvrstuk]

"Fouled plug" issue.

Try doing the tests I described earlier to determine whether the carb is leaking down when it is shut off.

The carb is NOT too big (not efficient, not the best cfm carb) but it WILL NOT be causing all your plugs to foul IF it is tuned properly and it sounds like when it's running it's doing pretty good...?

So, you are telling us that WHEN IT STARTS and RUNS that it runs pretty dang good right?

Then only when it's COLD (LA cold) that it won't start back up after sitting overnight... is the carb DRY when you FIRST try cranking it... you need to check... is your fuel filter full in the morning?

Still need answers... manual or electric pump? etc, etc


There is a difference between "fouled" plugs and "sooty plugs"... fouled plugs are wet...sooty ones reflect totally different symptoms than a wet fouled plug...

 

[BoureeOne]

"Fouled plug" issue.

Try doing the tests I described earlier to determine whether the carb is leaking down when it is shut off.

The carb is NOT too big (not efficient, not the best cfm carb) but it WILL NOT be causing all your plugs to foul IF it is tuned properly and it sounds like when it's running it's doing pretty good...?

So, you are telling us that WHEN IT STARTS and RUNS that it runs pretty dang good right?

Then only when it's COLD (LA cold) that it won't start back up after sitting overnight... is the carb DRY when you FIRST try cranking it... you need to check... is your fuel filter full in the morning?

Still need answers... manual or electric pump? etc, etc


There is a difference between "fouled" plugs and "sooty plugs"... fouled plugs are wet...sooty ones reflect totally different symptoms than a wet fouled plug...

Plugs are very black sooty . Like a thick layer of black powder almost. You touch it and it turns your fingers black. When I went to start it today I gave it no gas or choke to see what happened. I then closed the choke only. I then worked the throttle a couple of times. NOTE: this is still in the project stage. Just the drive train. No body.... I eventually did get it to start using starter fluid. I had to carefully work the throttle very gently to keep it running. Eventually as it warmed up, it ran a little better. I tried to rev it a few time to try and clean the plugs. It would pop and crack like it was misfiring, and after I revved the engine, on the decel it would back fire through the headers.

 

[BoureeOne]

"Fouled plug" issue.

Try doing the tests I described earlier to determine whether the carb is leaking down when it is shut off.

The carb is NOT too big (not efficient, not the best cfm carb) but it WILL NOT be causing all your plugs to foul IF it is tuned properly and it sounds like when it's running it's doing pretty good...?

So, you are telling us that WHEN IT STARTS and RUNS that it runs pretty dang good right?

Then only when it's COLD (LA cold) that it won't start back up after sitting overnight... is the carb DRY when you FIRST try cranking it... you need to check... is your fuel filter full in the morning?

Still need answers... manual or electric pump? etc, etc


There is a difference between "fouled" plugs and "sooty plugs"... fouled plugs are wet...sooty ones reflect totally different symptoms than a wet fouled plug...

Carter Electric Pump. Inline Fuel pressure gauge says its running between 6 and 7 psi.