Steam/Water coming out of Breather

[DirtDonk]

On a recently repeated episode of roadkill garage, they used a loaner tester. Changes colors when gases are present.
Changed colors immediately. But before they tore the engine apart, they did some other stuff (I don’t remember what) and for whatever reason, tested again.
No gas is present.
Maybe it was a simple flush, I don’t remember. But the bottom line was no blown head gasket.

Unfortunately, in this case, I don’t think you can pull the head off yourself. Unless the engine builder says it’s OK to do so and document the progress.
Interested to hear what they have to say about it. And perhaps what other tests they recommend before making a decision.

 

[SLOWnEASY]

I'll also be curious what they say.

 

[EPB72]

On a recently repeated episode of roadkill garage, they used a loaner tester. Changes colors when gases are present.
Changed colors immediately. But before they tore the engine apart, they did some other stuff (I don’t remember what) and for whatever reason, tested again.
No gas is present.
Maybe it was a simple flush, I don’t remember. But the bottom line was no blown head gasket.

Unfortunately, in this case, I don’t think you can pull the head off yourself. Unless the engine builder says it’s OK to do so and document the progress.
Interested to hear what they have to say about it. And perhaps what other tests they recommend before making a decision.

Agree dont just tear into it if your going to persue the warranty process,, ,,,,need to contact ATK first ,,but can still determine if coolant is getting into combuston chamber,, { possibilities head gasket , cracked head\\,, cracked block, intake leakage ,, timing cover all can put coolant into oil,,}}combuston gasses into cooling system possible false test results , usually due when there is also coolant contamination {oil into coolant} OR NOT in this case but an EGR system that has an EGR cooler . My experience and multible other local shops with ATK they will try hard to put the blame on the installer ,,

 

[ntsqd]

Does the cooling system hold pressure or not?
The answer to that dictates the next step.

 

[jeremywatco]

Does the cooling system hold pressure or not?
The answer to that dictates the next step.

No.. well.. not over time. If I pump it up.. it leaks coolant into the oil pan (verified with plug out) and over 20min or so will bleed down to zero psi.l

Going to grab some compressions today first when i get home before reaching out to ATK.

 

[jeremywatco]

Agree dont just tear into it if your going to persue the warranty process,, ,,,,need to contact ATK first ,,but can still determine if coolant is getting into combuston chamber,, { possibilities head gasket , cracked head\\,, cracked block, intake leakage ,, timing cover all can put coolant into oil,,}}combuston gasses into cooling system possible false test results , usually due when there is also coolant contamination {oil into coolant} OR NOT in this case but an EGR system that has an EGR cooler . My experience and multible other local shops with ATK they will try hard to put the blame on the installer ,,

What is the easiest way to rule out the intake or is there one? The intake gasket was replaced twice.. first time due to vac leak.. 2nd time due to 1st time being an idiot and putting wrong gasket on.

 

[ba123]

What is the easiest way to rule out the intake or is there one? The intake gasket was replaced twice.. first time due to vac leak.. 2nd time due to 1st time being an idiot and putting wrong gasket on.

Any chance you're using the wrong intake gasket or not all the pieces needed of it?

 

[jeremywatco]

It’s the correct gasket. The first time I swapped the intake out the gasket that I got was from an earlier year 302 and it was indeed the wrong gasket. The ports, although very similar in shape and size were just a little bit different and I believe that led to it leaking. This one was the correct size. I matched it up against the ports and I also matched it up with the original gasket that came on the motor from the builder. I also put our TV on both sides of the water ports.

 

[jeremywatco]

Here are results from compression test... on cold engine will call ATK on Monday for next steps probably borescope this weekend:

1 - 130
2 - 133
3 - 136
4 - 120 <---
5 - 140
6 - 140
7 - 138
8 - 135

 

[jeremywatco]

Plot thickens.... got one of those borescope style cameras that plugs into your phone, filled coolant and pressurized the system again... Inspected each cylinder and head gasket. Zero leaks in any of them. Scratching my head.... possible intake manifold is whats leaking? I mean that is the only part I messed with here.

Assume there isnt a way to scope under the intake manifold. I torqued these in sequence slowly up to 18ft/lbs. Went to 5 all the way around, then 10, then 15, then 18. Maybe I'll try to snug them up to 22 or so and see if it stops

 

[DirtDonk]

Well, to me it sounds like the thicker plot is good actually news. At least for now…
A leaky intake could be letting coolant into the block through the lifter gallery.
Doesn’t explain the smoke and the bad running, but it would explain coolant in the oil.
Maybe some of it is getting in through an intake port. So yes, I would say a leaky manifold gasket could still be causing all of your issues.

 

[jeremywatco]

Well, to me it sounds like the thicker plot is good actually news. At least for now…
A leaky intake could be letting coolant into the block through the lifter gallery.
Doesn’t explain the smoke and the bad running, but it would explain coolant in the oil.
Maybe some of it is getting in through an intake port. So yes, I would say a leaky manifold gasket could still be causing all of your issues.

Well on that note.. i have had ZERO smoke and the engine is running great. Everything was going great except for milk oil.

The bad running was cured with a new carb and fuel pressure regulator set to 5.

 

[Broncobowsher]

It is possible for a head gasket to leak water into the oil drain back. Without compromising the fire ring seal to the combustion chamber.

 

[jeremywatco]

It is possible for a head gasket to leak water into the oil drain back. Without compromising the fire ring seal to the combustion chamber.

I guess I'm trying to convince myself its not the heads and its the intake. I have to pull the intake anyways to get to the heads so maybe I'll try torquing to down a touch more and see if that accomplishes anything.. if not i guess I'll pull it off again and see whats up. Would hate to go through all this over again to find out its th timing cover or something like that.

 

[SLOWnEASY]

I would definitely try torquing the intake down tighter first before I did anything else..

 

[ntsqd]

As I recall those are 5/16-18 bolts. Assuming SAE Grade 5 max dry torque for those is 17 lbs-ft. Grade 8's in that size max is 25 lbs-ft.

 

[jeremywatco]

So.... torqued them down a touch more (20ft/lbs) and pressure tested cooling system with oil drain plug removed.. nice steady stream of coolant ran out.

So pulled intake and the lifter valley has lots of fresh coolant in it... so hoping its just the intake manifold gasket.. but the issue I am struggling with it... how did it leak? I put RTV down on the cooling ports before I put the gasket down. Took my time. Lined everything up. I have those little plastic threaded inserts that are like studs for aligning things. Let it cure over night, etc etc.

Just frustrated I am going to throw a new gasket on there again and have it leak.

 

[ntsqd]

Do you have any pictures of the current gaskets in place?

 

[Timmy390]

Dry fit the intake and see if it fits correctly. Head/intake mismatch. Intake bent/warped or maybe has been cut?

Tim

 

[ba123]

Yeah, you need to figure out where it's coming from and not just try again. Sometimes the third time is the charm but it's also the definition of insanity.

Maybe test fit with a dry gasket and poke a feeler gauge all over and try to find something that isn't fitting right?

look for other holes where the coolant might be coming from? There might be some discoloration somewhere if not coming from the gasket surface (maybe). Since you have the intake off and you've done this twice then maybe you should just redo the head gaskets as well just in case that's where it's coming from. Just because your compression is good, doesn't mean it isn't coming from the head gasket into the lifter valley.

Maybe find another set of eyes as well.