Suspension help...need to soften the blow.

[Sun_and_Steel77]

Hey guys,

This Duff 3.5" kit was installed when I purchased my Bronco, the previous owner believes it is around 10-12 years old. Before I posted I did do some searching and it does seem as though the Duff components have a reputation for being stiff, especially the 70/30 shocks.
I am hoping you guys could tell me by looking at it if it is still current technology or if the newer kits out there are big improvements over this Duff stuff. Can you guys tell by the pictures if the coils are linear or progressive?
The Bronco is O.K. on the street but I drive alot of gravel roads and the rear is crazy harsh, feels like a jolt of electricity up my spine everytime I hit a pothole and I grit my teeth and wince when I see one up ahead, this is with 10 PSI of air in the tires.
To put it in perspective, I wheeled a' 79 fullsize bronco for many years and if I had the same suspension in the rear I feel like it may have shattered the rear glass in the tailgate!!! Even my new Mastercraft seats don't help, it is unacceptable and it's time to solve the problem.

I have checked to make sure the eyebolts and shackles weren't over tightened, I am going to take the rear shocks off this afternoon and see if that makes a difference.
Do you guys have any other ideas?
I have no problem buying new leafs and coils from one of the vendors if it would improve {as in soften} my ride, just looking for some suggestions from the guys here who have more experience.

 

[bronconut73]

Progressive rate coils.
You're probably stiff because of how light you are.
No top, no doors, no spare carrier, no winch......

I am amazed how much better my eb has rode through the years as I have added weight with the hard top, heavy bumpers, winch, etc....

Yes. Take off the rear shocks and see how it feels. You could remove a few leaves from your leaf packs and see how that feels as well.

Regarding the front progressive coils. You're probably not going to find better coils. But you could upgrade to RS 9000's or even better Bilsteins.
Wild Horses could help you get the correct shock for either choice.

 

[mac77]

coils

I have talked to bc Broncos and they claim their coil are linear. They say that they have a softer ride on street and sacrifice some flex on the trail. That is probably the kit I will be using on my Broncos eventually.

 

[bronconut73]

I have talked to bc Broncos and they claim their coil are linear. They say that they have a softer ride on street and sacrifice some flex on the trail. That is probably the kit I will be using on my Broncos eventually.

I run JBG's linear rate coils. They ride better than my old Duff coils but like you said they don't flex/droop as much, "so far" that hasn't mattered much.

 

[Sun_and_Steel77]

I have talked to bc Broncos and they claim their coil are linear. They say that they have a softer ride on street and sacrifice some flex on the trail. That is probably the kit I will be using on my Broncos eventually.

Interesting, I'll have to give BC a call and see what they think.

As a follow-up, I drove the truck with the rear shocks removed this afternoon and it seemed to ride a bit more supple, but the washboard and pot-holes on the gravel road were still pretty harsh.
When I inspected the shocks they look to be in pretty rough shape, the pistons seem to show little travel and they are starting to pit with rust, also the shock would not slowly rebound when compressed...looks like a good time to change them. Suggestions for a nice soft riding shock?

Does changing the factory shock mounts and going with the hoops that the vendors sell offer any change in ride or just longer travel?

From what I can tell the rear leafs are a 10-pack and look like all the latest greatest current offerings from the vendors. Tapered ends, teflon wear pads etc.
I'll have to call Duffs and see if they have changed spring rates in the last 10 years.

On a side note...the Wild Horses 4.5 inch lift kit looks mighty nice right now

 

[Sun_and_Steel77]

Progressive rate coils.
You're probably stiff because of how light you are.
No top, no doors, no spare carrier, no winch......

I am amazed how much better my eb has rode through the years as I have added weight with the hard top, heavy bumpers, winch, etc....

Yes. Take off the rear shocks and see how it feels. You could remove a few leaves as well

Even though the truck has been on a diet as of late the problem is still there with the hardtop installed.

Any idea which leaves to remove? from the top or bottom?
Thanks for the info.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Pulling the shocks is a good start. If they are too stiff it won't matter what spring is in there. Did you drive around without shocks first? Do that before thinking of taking any springs apart. Be careful in your attempt to soften the springs, they also do other things like control axle wrap.

Those aftermarket rear springs generally do a fairly good job at controlling ride quality. Not really much more that can be done spring wise.
The front coils look a little thick (stiff).

 

[Sun_and_Steel77]

Pulling the shocks is a good start. If they are too stiff it won't matter what spring is in there. Did you drive around without shocks first?

The front coils look a little thick (stiff).

Drove around with no shocks and did notice a slight improvement, the shocks do look like they have seen better days and should be replaced, just waiting for the suggestions to start rolling in regarding which shocks will give me the softest ride.
As for the front coils, they really don't articulate well at all along with being damn stiff.

I have to give the rear springs a bit of credit where it's due. They really flex great and I can lay fifty feet of rubber on the road with no axle-wrap or wheel hop.

 

[Sun_and_Steel77]

How do four link suspensions ride? Still streetable?

I've got a bit of money to throw at this suspension situation, I just want to be sure I'm not wasting it by trying to improve on something that is already up to date.

 

[PaveBronco]

Looks like you've got an Add-A-leaf in there, its the fourth one down with no taper on the end or friction pad. In fact its too long and is hitting the number three leaf friction pad locator..
Remove that it will help, will also provide more space between the spring retainer bolts, so it will flex a little better. Not sure those burn-outs are a good idea, unless you own a tire shop..

 

[DirtDonk]

How does it steer and feel on the road? Reason I ask is that you have the original "Y" type steering linkage with no dropped pitman arm. That's usually a recipe for most people with the '76 and '77 EB's, but if yours is working properly, leave it alone.
I was just curious in case you were also experiencing some issues that and just hadn't gotten to that yet.

And regarding the shocks not extending out when unhooked, not all shocks are gas pressurized to begin with. So it depends on what you've got. I don't know about all Duff shocks, but I'm pretty sure that at least some were NOT gas pressure shocks.

When you do go to replace shocks though, you can't just tell whoever you're ordering them from that you want the rears for a '77 Bronco. Your mounts have been changed to utilize the same style shock as the front it looks like.
Very much like the early '66 models before Ford changed it.

Are your stock original mounts behind the axle still there on the frame? I can see the lower mount on the back of the axle tube, but wondering if your truck had dual-shocks at one point or the rear upper mount just broke off and this was the fix?

Unless, that is, your particular EB was some super-late production '77 and Ford ran out of the standard type mount and reverted to the old type? ;D Now that would be one interesting item to add to the unusual things we find on later EB's!

The only way to get the proper shocks then would be to either utilize the old behind-the-axle mounts, or measure between the front mounts so the seller can spec out a shock.
And then hope they are not too stiff for the rear of an EB because they were for something else. That's where adjustables like the RS9000's come in handy though.

Paul

 

[ahansen_1985]

If you want really smooth you could consider coils on the rear... I run most the time no doors, or hard top... My daily setup w full tank of gas is 4400 lbs... And that's with 37's.... It's really a pleasure to drive on gravel and offroad... absolutly no jarring, hit potholes at any speed very smooth... not aburpt at all, good street manners...that's with duff 5.5 coils front and rear, ranch 9000 shocks....
If your ever in my neck of the woods your welcome to take a ride check them out..


1966 bronco, almost nothing factory

 

[kaw550]

When I was shopping around I called the vendors and asked what the spring rate was. I went with the Deaver coils from JBG. It was the softest I could find. Then I went with Bilstiens and had them revalved. It made a huge difference. It could be too soft if running a hard top, bumpers, winch, etc.

 

[stlo]

I'm curious if those are even James duff springs and not some other brand just painted blue.....I've never had any duff coils that were stiff .........for being 10&12yrs and duff using a progressive coil I'm surprised there is that much room between the top 4 coils.....a progressive coil that is 10&12yrs old should almost be touching each other on those top coils that's why they look like something else just painted blue.......just a thought

 

[bronconut73]

I'm curious if those are even James duff springs and not some other brand just painted blue.....I've never had any duff coils that were stiff .........for being 10&12yrs and duff using a progressive coil I'm surprised there is that much room between the top 4 coils.....a progressive coil that is 10&12yrs old should almost be touching each other on those top coils that's why they look like something else just painted blue.......just a thought

Yea. I noticed that too.

My twenty year old progressive Duff coils had the top three coils touching......but my eb "is" kind of fat/heavy.

 

[Sun_and_Steel77]

How does it steer and feel on the road? Reason I ask is that you have the original "Y" type steering linkage with no dropped pitman arm. That's usually a recipe for most people with the '76 and '77 EB's, but if yours is working properly, leave it alone.
I was just curious in case you were also experiencing some issues that and just hadn't gotten to that yet.

And regarding the shocks not extending out when unhooked, not all shocks are gas pressurized to begin with. So it depends on what you've got. I don't know about all Duff shocks, but I'm pretty sure that at least some were NOT gas pressure shocks.

When you do go to replace shocks though, you can't just tell whoever you're ordering them from that you want the rears for a '77 Bronco. Your mounts have been changed to utilize the same style shock as the front it looks like.
Very much like the early '66 models before Ford changed it.

Are your stock original mounts behind the axle still there on the frame? I can see the lower mount on the back of the axle tube, but wondering if your truck had dual-shocks at one point or the rear upper mount just broke off and this was the fix?

Unless, that is, your particular EB was some super-late production '77 and Ford ran out of the standard type mount and reverted to the old type? ;D Now that would be one interesting item to add to the unusual things we find on later EB's!

The only way to get the proper shocks then would be to either utilize the old behind-the-axle mounts, or measure between the front mounts so the seller can spec out a shock.
And then hope they are not too stiff for the rear of an EB because they were for something else. That's where adjustables like the RS9000's come in handy though.

Paul

Paul,

The Y-type steering works really well for me with minimal bump-steer. The truck handles pretty darn good on the road, really good manners and not twitchy.
I keep waiting for the linkage to bend like I've heard it eventually will but it keeps on keepin' on even with some moderate rock crawling thrown in for good measure. I can't seem to kill it just yet...but I have no aversion to changing it out when the time comes.

As for the shocks not extending back out, I've only ever run Ranchos in the past and didn't realize these Duffs might not be pressurized...you're probably right on the money there.

As for the rear shock mounts, no clue as to what's going on there. I think the P.O. mentioned that he ran dual shocks at one time...but I don't know if he added mounts or what. The inside of the frame rail doesn't have the eye type mount in place.
I am aiming to use a long travel mount like the shock-jock in the future

At this point I am seriously considering calling Wild Horses and seeing if they can hook me up with a 4.5" kit to my specs.
I need to do some more homework on this.

 

[Sun_and_Steel77]

If you want really smooth you could consider coils on the rear... I run most the time no doors, or hard top... My daily setup w full tank of gas is 4400 lbs... And that's with 37's.... It's really a pleasure to drive on gravel and offroad... absolutly no jarring, hit potholes at any speed very smooth... not aburpt at all, good street manners...that's with duff 5.5 coils front and rear, ranch 9000 shocks....

Sounds like a dream come true! I am handy with a wrench but can only make gummy-bears with a welder, unfortunately, So building my own 4-link suspension is out of the question. I see Duff offers a kit but they specify not a good idea for the street. I'm pretty much in the middle of B.F. nowhere with little opportunity to see a 4-link set-up in the flesh.
Whenever I try to search the topic to learn the basics I find I get bogged down in the technical aspect of it.
I see it in action on T.V. and it looks very nice, but then again body roll at 60 MPH would be scary.

I will keep researching the topic...4-link suspension for dummies!

 

[Sun_and_Steel77]

Looks like you've got an Add-A-leaf in there, its the fourth one down with no taper on the end or friction pad. In fact its too long and is hitting the number three leaf friction pad locator..
Remove that it will help, will also provide more space between the spring

I crawled under after reading your reply and I admit that one leaf does look out of place. Although it has no friction pad at the rear of the pack it has one on the front. Awful strange. I could certainly take it out and give it a try.
When I talked to Duffs awhile back they confirmed they carried a 10 leaf pack...that seems to be what these are.

As for the front coils...they will be hitting the road shortly. Way too stiff and poor articulation.

 

[ahansen_1985]

Sounds like a dream come true! I am handy with a wrench but can only make gummy-bears with a welder, unfortunately, So building my own 4-link suspension is out of the question. I see Duff offers a kit but they specify not a good idea for the street. I'm pretty much in the middle of B.F. nowhere with little opportunity to see a 4-link set-up in the flesh.
Whenever I try to search the topic to learn the basics I find I get bogged down in the technical aspect of it.
I see it in action on T.V. and it looks very nice, but then again body roll at 60 MPH would be scary.

I will keep researching the topic...4-link suspension for dummies!

Ahh another crazy Canadian lol, very little body roll surprisingly... I was expecting a lot more roll than I have...

 

[Sun_and_Steel77]

When I was shopping around I called the vendors and asked what the spring rate was. I went with the Deaver coils from JBG. It was the softest I could find. Then I went with Bilstiens and had them revalved. It made a huge difference. It could be too soft if running a hard top, bumpers, winch, etc.

When you say it made a huge difference do you mean that you were running a system that was to harsh as well?

The only plans for the future in regards to weight is a proto-fab non-winch front bumper.

I don't know if anyone noticed but I run the TBP impact rear bumper which is pretty beefy in the weight department as well as a Sherman Tank from WH that when filled with 90 liters of gas is pretty heavy.
The P.O. had a 250 inline six from a Maverick installed. I was surprised to find that when I swapped my 5.0 in it's place it seemed lighter than the 250.
I am pretty sure this is the case because the nose now sits slightly higher, I'm thinking the aluminum heads, headers as well as the Explorer oil pan which I believe is alloy probably made the 5.0 come in a fair bit lighter overall.