Tie rod flip

[Got4wd]

I would like to flip my tie rod to the top. 77 front end with the 5 bolt knuckles. I have the Y to T conversion from WH. Is there a sleeve kit out there? I can’t find anything. I would rather not go Chevy conversion.

 

[Shimmy]

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/wh-tro-with-standard-1977-t-setup.312909/

hopefully this will give ya more insight

 

[Got4wd]

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/wh-tro-with-standard-1977-t-setup.312909/

hopefully this will give ya more insight

Thank you for that. Don’t know why I didn’t find that. Hopefully someone other than duffs has those inserts. No way I’m ordering anything from duffs again.

 

[gnpenning]

Thank you for that. Don’t know why I didn’t find that. Hopefully someone other than duffs has those inserts. No way I’m ordering anything from duffs again.

Ruff stuff sells them but right now that might be an issue. James mentioned another source in the other thread. I think there is another vendor similar to ruff stuff that sells them??

Back in the early 90s I had them custom machined.

You have options, hopefully someone else will add more

 

[EPB72]

Maybe Barnes offroad

 

[DirtDonk]

I thought we had them? Then again, might not be the right size for a 77, but you could call in and ask.
Our part numbers #2382 and #2388.
They are larger, for the larger rod ends. But because they’re tapered, they might still be able to be fitted to the smaller 77 taper.
If someone has time, they could slide them over the exact parts that you currently have to see if they’re too sloppy or not.
Then we will know!

What we sell would still require that you modify the knuckle/Steering arm, of course. I don’t think there’s any way around that for flipping a tie rod.
And while you’re at all this, mock it up as it sits currently and see if you will have to modify the lower track bar bolt/stud. And to be certain you have clearance with the diff cover and the brake components.

 

[Shimmy]

yah i first found those and i think they're GM size. was honestly trying to find WH parts vs JD given the recent reviews.

 

[DirtDonk]

I thought that the tapers were the same (degree wise) and just the actual starting and stopping size (inch wise) differed.
The one of ours is officially “F150” size.

The real problem here is, I believe, is that your current rod end stud taper is “77 EB” size. Which could be unique in our discussion.

 

[widowmaker77]

Thank you for that. Don’t know why I didn’t find that. Hopefully someone other than duffs has those inserts. No way I’m ordering anything from duffs agai B.C. Broncos sells some inserts also.

https://bcbroncos.com/shop/steering/steering-linkage/47-00270-tie-rod-over-bushing-for-early-bronco/
Bc broncos sells some.

 

[Oldtimer]

77 Bronco front axle.
TRO installation puts the tie rod in the same plane as the track bar stud on the axle. I installed a shorter castle nut and trimmed the excess stud, as James mentioned.
The tie rod it's self still hit the stud and limited hard right turning radius.
Fortunately U-turns are to the left.

Track bar riser bracket eliminated the interference, by replacing stud with a bolt and raising track bar stud.

 

[Got4wd]

I don’t know how Highline classics does it then without all the issues. This is what I’m shooting for

 

[Got4wd]

Well, there's a statement that says a lot. Try this: "Hey, look how Highline dealt with all of those issues in their mega-dollar build."

Because that's not a Bronco front axle. That's a custom configured Dana 44, with an offset pumpkin, caster correction, custom trac bar bracket, and bump stop scabbed on to the casting. Look at the bump stop on a Bronco 44. You can see how it's on the tube, and not on the casting. Their pinion is also offset outboard by 2-3 inches to make room for the transmission and exhaust. But it puts the front driveshaft grossly out of line.

I'm out.

I get where you are coming from but offsetting the diff doesn’t make a difference on what I’m doing. The center line of the axle is the center line of any axle. Unless they are using a special knuckle that pushes it way forward then it will be the same as another 44. Bump stops also do not affect how the steering works. Lower track bar bracket can’t be much different than the stock one since they are using off the shelf parts from duffs and WH to build that front end. I can see where the tie rod would get really close but trimming the bolt should take care of that.

 

[DirtDonk]

The way I feel about it is, even though these have all been done before many times and for every year Bronco, I still think that anytime you’re doing a tie-rod over flip you have to mock up everything before you make final decisions.
That’s because you’re also trying to keep the track bar and drag link as parallel as possible, along with changing the angles of the bars, and trying to make sure everything fits without hitting something else.
The questions are, with any given amount of lift, do you run a drop pitman arm still, or not?
Do you run a track bar riser, track bar drop bracket, or neither?
Everything has to work together. And as the others have mentioned, they don’t always. Broncos had at least two different steering arm designs. More once disc brakes are swapped in.
Luckily (?) the’77 uses stock knuckles and brakes, but you still need to find out where your setup will fall.
Does Highline use Bronco knuckles? Doubtful.
Do they use custom knuckles? High steer? F150 SuperCab? Duff?
All different than your’77.

In fact, from the look of the pictures of highline, their drag like and track bar are not parallel anymore. The likelihood that the knuckles have higher staring arms is very high in this case.
That’s quite a bit higher than the lower trackbar stud.
But since it’s a non-stock set up, it’s hard to say.
Sounds like you’ve compared the location of the lower bolt/stud to the lower bolt/stud on a highline. If they’re at the same relationship to the tube, then that sounds like something else has changed.
Because practically every other Bronco that’s ever done a TRO, has had the tie rod running into the lower track bar stud. Pretty much everyone.

So as I always say, mock it up. See what you get, then lock it up again. And if there’s any doubt keep mocking it up until everything is just right!

 

[DirtDonk]

As a starter, compare where you’re steering arms are in relationship to your your joint/Steering yolk. Then compare where the Steering arms are on the highline classic knuckles.
That should give you at least a beginning point of reference.

 

[Got4wd]

@DirtDonk anyone know what brand or style this knuckle is? Now I’m just curious how much difference is between various knuckles. A lot of the builders have gone to TRO. It makes sense. The flatter the steering the less movement going down the road.

 

[EPB72]

@DirtDonk anyone know what brand or style this knuckle is? Now I’m just curious how much difference is between various knuckles. A lot of the builders have gone to TRO. It makes sense. The flatter the steering the less movement going down the road.

they appear to Reid flat tops . but that picture you posted they look slightly different but maybe an illusion ... WH shows them in pairs ,and are 6 bolt spindle , reid site has the 5 bolt, wonder if you contact them they can drill/taper in what ever configuration you want ?

AS far as HLC the picture the track bar mount is clearly not stock. and welded nearly flush with the axle tube. The OE stands off about an inch, note the clearence issues are when steered full right or left not in the straight ahead position ,,you dont see that in those pics, ,,adjusting steering stops can alleviate that at the cost of less turning radius,,,,not to mention using stock style tie rod, drag links as apposed to larger DOM tubing could be helpfull in the clearence issues,,

FWIW in my case doing a cut and turn put my TRU tie rod right on the stock track bar mount stud , when turned .... was aready going with a riser but non the less,,,,

 

[Oldtimer]

I would like to flip my tie rod to the top. 77 front end with the 5 bolt knuckles.

What rims are you running and what is the back spacing? You need to look at clearance between rim and top mounted tie rod end, before you start drilling/reaming knuckles.

This is a 15" Ansen mag with 3-1/2" back spacing.
Not sure there is enough room for standard tie rod end.

 

[Got4wd]

After looking again you guys are right on the bracket. It is farther back than stock.

 

[Got4wd]

What rims are you running and what is the back spacing? You need to look at clearance between rim and top mounted tie rod end, before you start drilling/reaming knuckles.

This is a 15" Ansen mag with 3-1/2" back spacing.
Not sure there is enough room for standard tie rod end.

View attachment 963475

I will be running 17” wheels so that should be ok I’m thinking

 

[toddz69]

I will be running 17” wheels so that should be ok I’m thinking

How much lift and are you planning on raising the track bar at the axle end?

Todd Z.