tie rod ream question

[73azbronco]

I have fullsize Bronco steering knuckles, I did the TRO 10 plus years ago using whatever the parts where back then, never pulled it apart until this week and I find a noticeable gap tie rod taper to knuckle, and the tie rod nut when tight is not square/flush on the underside of the knuckle. I would say it could wobble in the hole it has, but I'm not strong enough to wiggle the thing. When I pull tie rod out, I am not seeing much attempt at taper into the top of knuckle.

So to my issue, I have an odd "bump steer" which is only bad when one wheel takes a bump. If I go over a bump where both wheels hit the same level of bump, drives perfectly straight. No bumps drives perfectly straight at 70mph. This tells me something is lose. Drag link is new, tight, new springs to 2.5 SL, and axle was built with raised track bar mount for the lift, new and tight, trailing arms new bushings, tight. Only thing odd is the taper issue.

I think the bad taper is allowing tie rods to move/flex, causing my interesting steering issue.

Next point, I need to fix the bad taper, would it be expected that 10 plus years ago they used a 7 degree taper?

If not, I guess use the 7/8 sleeve with 7deg taper option? How the heck do you keep from breaking a wrist with a 7/8ths bit?

How, Everything I'm seeing online now, has the knuckle off the vehicle, oh man, ouch.

Tool for everything, found a 7/8 tapered drill bit:

https://drillsandcutters.com/7-8-hs...1aGbHWpwsFSiCJGFxq4RQanZBcBZ1GvhoCIa0QAvD_BwE

I read you need to weld the taper which complicates my issue, I'm 10 miles from a welder. Not impossible, just drill at welder.

Begin your test now, no lobster eyes! Grading is on a curve, enjoy!

 

[EPB72]

I have fullsize Bronco steering knuckles, I did the TRO 10 plus years ago using whatever the parts where back then, never pulled it apart until this week and I find a noticeable gap tie rod taper to knuckle, and the tie rod nut when tight is not square/flush on the underside of the knuckle. I would say it could wobble in the hole it has, but I'm not strong enough to wiggle the thing. When I pull tie rod out, I am not seeing much attempt at taper into the top of knuckle.

So to my issue, I have an odd "bump steer" which is only bad when one wheel takes a bump. If I go over a bump where both wheels hit the same level of bump, drives perfectly straight. No bumps drives perfectly straight at 70mph. This tells me something is lose. Drag link is new, tight, new springs to 2.5 SL, and axle was built with raised track bar mount for the lift, new and tight, trailing arms new bushings, tight. Only thing odd is the taper issue.

I think the bad taper is allowing tie rods to move/flex, causing my interesting steering issue.

Next point, I need to fix the bad taper, would it be expected that 10 plus years ago they used a 7 degree taper?

If not, I guess use the 7/8 sleeve with 7deg taper option? How the heck do you keep from breaking a wrist with a 7/8ths bit?

How, Everything I'm seeing online now, has the knuckle off the vehicle, oh man, ouch.

Tool for everything, found a 7/8 tapered drill bit:

https://drillsandcutters.com/7-8-hs...1aGbHWpwsFSiCJGFxq4RQanZBcBZ1GvhoCIa0QAvD_BwE

I read you need to weld the taper which complicates my issue, I'm 10 miles from a welder. Not impossible, just drill at welder.

Begin your test now, no lobster eyes! Grading is on a curve, enjoy!

yes 10 years ago the 7 degree taper was appropiate ,, as well as 30 years ago when we were doing GM TRE and DOM tubing conversions,

post some pictures ..how deep does the TRE stud drop into the knuckle currently ?.

 

[Oldtimer]

Tool for everything, found a 7/8 tapered drill bit:

This tapered drill bit is not a 7 degree ream.
It is used to open up two misaligned 7/8 drill holes, so thar a 7/8 bolt will go thru them.

This is a 7 degree ream. WH sells them.

 

[JAF]

73azbronco, I recently completed the TRO conversion. The guys at WH's were very helpful, I got the tapered bit (pictured above) and their tapered shims (Early Bronco Tie Rod Over Knuckle Sleeves for F150 Tie Rod Ends #2388). It was recommended to use plenty of lubricant when drilling. I drilled them out on the bronco. Went slow. Used a battery drill with a clutch. Stopped and checked the hole frequently to ensure the tapper was going evenly. I stopped when the inserts were barely flush. Cleaned the holes with brake cleaner and re-installed the steering linkage. Re-set the toe-in and took it for a test drive. Made a significant difference.

 

[73azbronco]

This tapered drill bit is not a 7 degree ream.
It is used to open up two misaligned 7/8 drill holes, so thar a 7/8 bolt will go thru them.

This is a 7 degree ream. WH sells them.

View attachment 964437

Correct, I was going to drill with tapered drill to 7/8, then taper to 7 degree.

 

[73azbronco]

73azbronco, I recently completed the TRO conversion. The guys at WH's were very helpful, I got the tapered bit (pictured above) and their tapered shims (Early Bronco Tie Rod Over Knuckle Sleeves for F150 Tie Rod Ends #2388). It was recommended to use plenty of lubricant when drilling. I drilled them out on the bronco. Went slow. Used a battery drill with a clutch. Stopped and checked the hole frequently to ensure the tapper was going evenly. I stopped when the inserts were barely flush. Cleaned the holes with brake cleaner and re-installed the steering linkage. Re-set the toe-in and took it for a test drive. Made a significant difference.

Good point, I will get inserts to cross check while tapering.

Did you weld, how did that go?

We do have mobile service, might do that for tig welds, I suppose bottom of insert?

 

[JAF]

The inserts from WH's have a tapered O.D. and I.D., so since they get wedged in just like the tie rod when tightened, I didn't think it necessary to weld. I don't think you want to drill the hole out to 7/8" before tapering, I'm thinking it would make the hole to big, and the insert would drop in to far. I would wait till you have the insert in hand before doing anything.

 

[Oldtimer]

What JAF said, if you start with a 7/8 hole, by the time you get the complete hole tapered, the large end will be close to 1 inch diameter.

 

[73azbronco]

Thanks Jaf and oildtimer.

Took a tour of Payson mechanics. Firestone won't touch an old car. Big O will throw it on alignment table and give me numbers. Another wheel place wont touch it.

The guy I had planned to "fix" the last two feet of my exhaust, doesn't do that anymore, and the guy he sold his stuff too he won't recommend.

So, recommendations on anyone in Metro PHX as an exhaust shop?

Anyone recommended to work on an old Bronco suspension and steering? Randy and team at Driven retired.

Lastly, here is a shot of my front end, notice pitman arm is pretty darn flat, never noticed that. I think if I swap out the pitman and use a 1" to 2" drop, that would make the drag link and track bar dead on parallel. Any idea if a stock ford pitman with 1 or 2 inch drop will work? And even then, I dont think it's off more than 5 degrees? Thoughts?

For now, besides the pitman arm test, I am going with just the 7deg reamer from WH, make that right, and retest. drilling and inserts mean lots of issues.

 

[toddz69]

With regards to exhaust guys in Phoenix, I'd recommend Greg at Mighty Muf'ler at 10032 N. Cave Creek Road. He's an old school guy that's been doing it for years.

Todd Z.

 

[73azbronco]

Willco thanks. Maybe when its not 8 feet from the surface of the sun.

Pouring monsoon outside right now, nice.

 

[ntsqd]

I remember those monsoons from when I went over there to help a friend move back after graduating from UTI.

I'm hoping that you're not there yet, but when I've made cylindrical bushings to alter or repair a TRE taper I give them a flange under the nut. I make them a slight press into the arm and only the OD of the flange is welded to the arm. That way even if they come loose in the arm it can't get out of the hole in the arm. Flange blocks it from going out that way and the body of the TRE blocks it from going the other way.

 

[73azbronco]

I think most inserts have a collar on top?

 

[ntsqd]

No idea, neither of the taper shims sold by WH have that feature, but being a shim I wouldn't expect them to.

 

[JAF]

I think there are 2 types of inserts. One has a straight O.D. And flanged top:

the second has a tapered O.D., therefore not needing a flange to prevent passing through the hole:

 

[ntsqd]

That's why I was careful to say cylindrical, because only those need it. Judging by the picture, those are made wrong. The flange is on the large OD side.

The fully conic parts are mostly used as shims to adapt a smaller tapered pin into a larger taped hole. If the existing tapered hole is fubar, then the shims probably aren't going to fix it.

 

[Oldtimer]

Judging by the picture, those are made wrong. The flange is on the large OD side.

?
The insert OD is a cylinder, OD is same top to bottom.
The flange is on the large ID end of the taper.
Drop the insert in round hole till it is stopped by flange.
Insert tapered stud into large ID end, and the stud will expand split insert against side of round hole.

 

[73azbronco]

So the split one is the one im looking at if needed, it slips in from top?, and needs no welding I would think?.

WH 7 deg reamer enroute, I'll try that first. And I have the wrist busting two handle electric drill if needed for drilling later.

 

[jamesroney]

So the split one is the one im looking at if needed, it slips in from top?, and needs no welding I would think?.

WH 7 deg reamer enroute, I'll try that first. And I have the wrist busting two handle electric drill if needed for drilling later.

You seem like a decent guy. So take this from someone that has done it wrong every way possible.

As with any machining operation, you want the correct cutting speed, pressure, and angle. Not too fast, not too slow. The reamer from Wild H does not like to go too fast.

You will be tempted to ream that hole with the knuckle on the Bronco. That is fine. Take the time to build a fixture (I use angle iron and clamps) to hold the right hand knuckle all the way OUTBOARD. (so a hard right turn.) Keep in mind that there is no situation where the reaming of the hole requires you to hold the drill vertical. It is always at some strange angle that must be perpendicular to the arm. You might be tempted to drill it when it is pointing forward. Don't do that. Once you start drilling, if the knuckle starts to want to "steer" then the knuckle flops, the reamer bites, and bad things happen. You want the knuckle arrested, so it does not move, and the most secure is to put it up against one side. (trust me on this.)

The split bushing is looking for a straight thru hole. The cone shaped one (frustrum) is looking for a tapered hole. There is no welding required on anything for any reason.

Make sure to mark your reamer at the top with indelible paint, or marker at the correct depth. You don't want to go too deep, and it ALWAYS seems like you are almost there, until you've gone too far. I usually just put the reamer into a correct sized hole, tape it with electrical tape, and then paint it with light colored paint. You are lucky, because you will be drilling from the top, which is a LOT easier than drilling from the bottom, upside down, with hot shavings burning holes in your face.

If you end up using the split sleeve, and a thru hole, you WILL end up needing to counter-bore the knuckle for that flange head. The arms are just too thick for the additional shoulder sticking up. Don't be tempted to make the arms thinner. That's cheating.

Don't worry about pitman arm angle now. You can worry about that after this tie rod end is right. I'm going to say that once you fix this, you won't need any further corrections.

 

[ntsqd]

?
The insert OD is a cylinder, OD is same top to bottom.
The flange is on the large ID end of the taper.
Drop the insert in round hole till it is stopped by flange.
Insert tapered stud into large ID end, and the stud will expand split insert against side of round hole.

It is, but the flange on the big end does nothing if the weld(s) fail. When it is on the small end then the TRE + insert can't escape the arm towards the big end because of the flange, and can't escape the arm towards the small end because of the TRE body.