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TRUE "One wire" alternator...grrrrrrrr!

RRRAAAYYY2

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
1,684
Loc.
Brantford, Ontario
Check, check, check. Even installed a grounding cable to the chassis which I sanded down for a good ground. Um, never said the starter was next to the INTAKE manifold...I said what's quoted, and asked if anyone had had any luck with thermoshields that wrap around the starter...it's a tight fit there, so I'd imagine it would help a bit for the price...around 30 bucks on Jegs, I think.

If you need to know where the intake manifold is, I'd be happy to tell you WHERE TO GO...just PM me, dude ;D

Clean, bright, and tight connections are good. You can wrap your starter in the insulated muffler tape. Or if you are not going to a show, just stuff Roxul green insulation (for a house, non itchy too) around it. The Roxul will not burn, is water resistant, etc, and work way better than a shield. Just doent look pretty.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,106
If you need to know where the intake manifold is, I'd be happy to tell you WHERE TO GO...just PM me, dude ;D

Now D, take a chill-pill and go play with those funny colored wires some more. ;D ;)
I think he was asking in a normal manner, not making fun.
Of course I could be wrong, but that's how I took it.

Paul
 

RRRAAAYYY2

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
1,684
Loc.
Brantford, Ontario
Interestiing, Chuck. If I could afford a visit to another shop, I'd do just that...go to a smaller pulley. Heck, it can't cost that much, though? Thanks for the suggestion.
I think the best fix right now is to lose that 12 gauge wire. That's why I get so angry at shops...they did it...they should know better. They even replaced the battery "ends" and put in an old tray....130.00 for something I could do, yet he put that 12 gauge wire from that new alternator to the starter relay (poorly crimped, at that).

So why did I let him put in a freakin' battery tray? He used a phrase I was unfamialir with..."dialing in." I didn't know what that meant, so he got me. %) It's not hard....I'm in that dangerous place of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing, but I do know what I want....I research items to death. I just don't feel comfortable arguing with mechanics....yet that wire is a prime example. Even I knew, looking at it, it was too small. Then I got home and looked at the tray...not even new. I also should've insisted on a 50 oz harmonic balancer insteed of 28 oz, so she shakes like a polaroid picture now. She's always worse after a visit to the "shop." Someone needs to take it off my hands....not in love with her anymore.

I'm ready for a divorce. It's a good looking vehicle, dent free, but of course, is far from perfect. Anyone is welcome to ask about price. Totally serious. Never been registered in Cali, either.

Oh, and sorry to the guy before Chuck...I just get "pissy" when people quote others for a laugh. It's not cool. And, I do lose my temper quickly about this vehicle....I've put too much of my heart and soul into it. It is time for it to go, or I'll turn into some type of serial killer over it. It's that aggravating. PM me for price.....you'd be surprised what I'd take and what it's got. I just wish it reflected the over thirty grand in receipts I have.
D

Why dont we work through a couple of the gremlins first. Then decide on selling it or not.

The smaller pulley should cost you about $10 at starter/alternator shop. We could also wire in the 3G LED, which will also help turn the alternator on quicker as well. The LED pigtail is under $5 at NAPA. Then when you like, if you need to, you can go to a 3G easily. Bumping the idle up a little costs you nothing as well.
 

RRRAAAYYY2

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
1,684
Loc.
Brantford, Ontario
I thought the hole idea of the one wire or, "self exciting", regulator in the alternator was to automatically start charging. With out the "self exciting" regulator the alternator needs rpm to excite it into charging. As for wiring a "self exciting" alternator, there only needs to be the battery wire. The small two wire connector is simply for a gauge or light. I did the conversion on my Ford tractor. I hooked up the old generator light as a discharge, or "idiot" light. I ran a wire from the ignition switch to the light, then from the light to one side ( I think it was the left ) of the two wire connector. If you turn on the igition switch. The light comes on because the amature is currently grounded (I think). Then as soon as the alterntor starts turning the light goes out because now the terminal is not grounded. It does not require reving the engine above idle speed to start charging.

On a one wire you should only ever need the one wire from the alternator's output to the battery.

The small two wire prongs, are connected in an SE regulator, and will operate an idiot light.

Tradional regulators need the light circuit to stell it to charge, or an ignition wire and light circuit, depending on which brand.

You are right, the armature ciruit is grounded so the light comes on. Then when the regulator turns on it powers the line up, and so you have + and + on bothsides of the bulb, thus turning it off.

On a lot of older style one wires, with no extra wires, they need to see over 3000 rotor rpm to turn on. This in a lot of cases means giving them a bump at first. Your tractor likely has an 8" crank pulley, so its idle is making the alternator spin faster than when on a car.
 

chase8266

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
125
Loc.
vegas/slc/medford,OR
oops, i never looked at edelbrock for exhaust manifolds my mistake.
dont sell your bronco,this is just a small argument.
if i didnt have 2 broncos now i would buy it,i got my hands full with 3 vehicles
 

Ranchtruck

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
766
So why did I let him put in a freakin' battery tray? I just don't feel comfortable arguing with mechanics....yet that wire is a prime example. Even I knew, looking at it, it was too small. Then I got home and looked at the tray...not even new. I also should've insisted on a 50 oz harmonic balancer insteed of 28 oz, so she shakes like a polaroid picture now. She's always worse after a visit to the "shop."
D

To start with, I don't know you. So, taking anything I say personally would be stupid.

Understand that people being "had" by crooked, incompetent mechanics is equal male vs female. The days of "Dad" knowing about cars and it was "Mom" or "Sis" getting taken advantage of are over. "Dad" knows nothing about cars, and never really did, but isn't expected to pretend to by society these days. "Mom" isn't expected to play helpless either though like she used to be pressured to by society. So that's over with. You're not getting bad service because your a woman. Everyone is getting bad service. Knowing that, insist on good service, and when you know something is wrong or not done to your standards, make sure they fix it the way you want it before you pay. That's not "arguing" with the mechanic, it's getting the mechanic to do his goddamn job.

You need to go back and get the right harmnoic balancer put on.
If the crank is from a pre early 80's (I can't remember the year split) 302 or any 351w, then you need the 28oz. If it's a 5.0 swapped from something early 80's or newer, then the 50oz. It will cause damage running it with the wrong balancer, and they need to swap it for free with the right one. Don't just sit there and be bitter about them doing crap work, make them fix it right. That's called a "comeback" in the industry, and it's regular practice to fix it for free if the work sucked to start with. The customer-you- has to come back and demand the job be done right for that system to work.

Enough with the "woe is me, helpless woman being taken advantage of by sleazy men" side of the thread. It's old, tired, and annoying. I've got an older cousin like that. Plenty smart, science teacher, but lets contractors and mechanics walk all over her because she feels the need to play the helpless woman game. Fuck that noise, stand up for yourself and get the job done right!

Threatening to sell it hurts no one but you, so don't even bother. You know you're throwing away your "investment" if you do, so why entertain those thoughts? With a little work and a little learning, you should be plenty capable of fixing it yourself.

Alternator outputs are usually run straight to the battery through either a dedicated maxi-fuse or a fusible link (wire with a calibrated weak spot). Many manufactures do that in the under-hood fuse box, older fords tended to have a fusible link hooked to the battery side of the starter solenoid. This wire and the fuse, which should be rated less than the wire, should be big enough to handle the max output of the alternator. A discharged battery can soak up an intese amount of amperage, as can running large loads like winches. You don't want the alt to be on the same fuse as the rest of your loads because if the alt dies and the fuse pops, you can still run the car off the battery for a while. The way you have it wired now, with the alt feeding the dash (load) side of the main fuse is really bad because it defeats the point of the main fuse. You want all your power sources on the same side and all the loads on the other of the main fuse.

1 wire alternators are immune to piss-poor wiring jobs because the regulator circuit is monitoring the voltage at the output terminal of the alternator. As long as the alt can keep that terminal at 14.7 volts, it regulates the output amperage down to keep that stable. If there's high resistance in the wire leading from that terminal to the battery, the battery may be only seeing 10v output. This is called voltage drop, and it's key to how circuits work.

Normal alternators have their regulators referencing battery voltage, through a separate wire. Take this setup, put the crappy wire the 1 wire alt had on it, and it will up the output amperage on the alternator terminal until the battery voltage reaches 14.7v. Remember the 4.7v voltage drop across that wire? That now turns into a load between the alternator cranking out amps and the battery. So that wire heats up, the insulation melts off, and fire ensues. That's also why you put a fuse smaller than the current capacity of the wire in.

To make a 1 wire alt work properly, you need to have a connection to the battery that's large enough to have less than 0.5 v drop at full load. So when the alt is cranking out 100 amps at 14.7v, the battery should be seeing at least 14.2v. So that calls for decent wire. Factory is often 8g, or a pair of 10g wires run in parallel, remembering that the higher the number gauge, the smaller the wire. A decent 6g wire should work as long as it's not wrapped in a harness. 4g would be better, but probably overkill. Good crimps, ring terminals, and clean, tight, connections. Remember that the ground circuit between the alternator bracket and the battery has to be matched too.

You can probably buy the wire you need from an autoparts store as battery cable. They come in pre-crimped lengths, you need one to go straight from the battery side post of the starter solenoid to the alternator stud. Leave some sag in the run so that the engine can move around without tugging on the wire.

Then use a multimeter to check voltage drops. Check that the alternator is producing 14.5-.7v at 1100rpms (stick a screwdriver between the idle stop and the lever on the carb). That test is between the output stud of the alt and the case, then check that between the posts of the battery is at least 14.2v or best equal to what you measured at the alt. Keep in mind a 1 wire alt will only charge as much as it's connection the battery will allow. If the wire is bad, the alternator will be hardly working to keep it's end up at 14.7, and the battery may be getting nothing.
 

FASTERDAMITT

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
806
Loc.
Oceanside
I have no problems with the one wire as far as keeping the battery charged, yes the lights are a little dimmer at idle if the ac is on high but no battery drainage over time. I did put a smaller pulley on just so I could see a little more amps of idle, but probably didn't need it.
How many amps before the v-belt starts slipping on the pulley? Mine does some times when it kicks in already.
 

Pa PITT

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
11,270
Loc.
Stephenville TEXAS
I hated my one wire 10SI ..My lights went to nothing at idle.. I idle nearly everywhere I go so the one wire was not for me .. I bought Rays 3G .. But before I went to it I swapped over to the 4bt diesel and used the alt it had and all is great..
...... Be sure and do the upgrade on your head lamps but get your alt going 1st..
 

RRRAAAYYY2

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
1,684
Loc.
Brantford, Ontario
I have no problems with the one wire as far as keeping the battery charged, yes the lights are a little dimmer at idle if the ac is on high but no battery drainage over time. I did put a smaller pulley on just so I could see a little more amps of idle, but probably didn't need it.
How many amps before the v-belt starts slipping on the pulley? Mine does some times when it kicks in already.

Highest stock amperage I know of with a single V belt is 94amps. Now with proper belt adjustments, you can go much higher, as well if you use a larger alternator pulley you can go higher before you get belt squeal.
 
OP
OP
Offroadchick

Offroadchick

New Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
7
Thanks to all...and thanks for accepting my apology, Chase.

A lot to respond to. Hmmm.
1. It doesn't have the two prongs...it came from ACE Alternators (NOT the dedicated bronco shop I won't name, just where it got towed 100 yards from that shop) going up to the Yucca Mountains. My geography of the area sucks. Just one bolt that the wire connects to, nothing else. I could put my spectacles and use a magnifying glass, but pretty sure I've looked at it enough to not see them. It's an unusual, overpriced knock off of the 10si, a gm, right? but I make mistakes often...pretty sure no prongs, though. I've seen plenty of those advertised and remember looking for those prongs. In all honesty, this alternator works worse than the 65 amper that was originally on...the only upside is I've just been able to more easily eliminate the old wiring harness, which was acting as a hybrid of sorts 'til then. You don't want me to explain it....it's what freaked the shop out, but at least it worked better and I could get further than five miles.

2. And, yes, it is a 1985 engine...it requires a heavier weight re: the balancer.


3. When I'm onto a new task, I forget a lot of info from the last. I.E., deciding the proper place to hook the voltmeter.

Anyway, I ended up putting the voltmeter (since the amneter was no longer in existence) on the wire going to the ballast resistor. That could be a mistake, but it met the criteria...it must be switched on, in the "run" position....(again, I don't have a key, but a push button starter, but each of those is off a relay and has it's own switch).

I didn't drive it yesterday, just noted that after hooking it up, I revved the engine, and it showed around 14. I put it through the different gears, and before taking off, when not in park, it went back down to 12.5. I drove around the block, and it always went back down to 12.5 at a stop sign, unless I put it in park, in which it would go back up. Not a fun way to drive. Once it's excited, it should be continuously charging...that's why it needs to be taken off and sold to a farmer, or more easily, idle up the carb.

Right now, I just need to get that wire swtiched out....
So, the question of the day. I'll get a "starter wire" from NAPA, should be 4 gauge, I believe, and hook it directly to the battery, OR, the starter relay as the shop guys has it, OR, as I have it, i.e., following the c.s.i. manual. Aw hell....and another question....The post before reminded me that I have "squealing." It's that related to the alternator switcheroo? arrrghhh.
Thanks,
D
P.S. It WILL be sold. I'm a catholic and don't believe in divorce, but I don't love it anymore. I hereby accept the possiblity of burning in hell for getting rid of this beloved vehicle, but I won't throw more good money after bad any longer. Haha, okay? Throw some numbers at me, guys! I'll post pics...it's camo wrapped, has a half cab top, etc. I have a video before it was "wrapped" if anyone wants to see the body underneath.
 
Last edited:

broncnaz

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
The alternator will only charge when the battery or draw on the battery requires a charge so its normal for it to seem like its not charging after a few minutes. unless the battery was drawn way down it wont charge for long.

If your selling the bronco I wouldnt bother changing out the alternator its really not going to bring you anymore money. let the next owner upgrade or whatever.
 
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