Twin stick question

[EB70]

I have a 70 Bronco, t-shift with a 3-speed on the floor. I want something easier to shift at speed for 4x4 on the hwy with patchy snow and ice.

Next year most likely, I will be adding a factory automatic C4 with the factory adaptor to my T shift case.

It looks like I can use the same shifter, but I want to make sure.

Also, just because I have not done this swap before, do the shifters go through the floor in the same spot for both transmissions?

Thank you for your help.

 

[Colo77Bronco]

I don’t believe you will ever be able to shift a Dana 20 at any speed due to the design regardless of the shifter mechanism.

 

[EB70]

I don’t believe you will ever be able to shift a Dana 20 at any speed due to the design regardless of the shifter mechanism.

It's funny I have not really driven a Dana 20 equipped vehicle in the winter in a long time. I do occasionally drive my Bronco in the ice and snow but it is infrequent. Looking to do anything to make it a little better. It is my intention to drive this more regularly this winter.

It is not a real smooth operating shifter that is for sure.

 

[904Bronco]

I don’t believe you will ever be able to shift a Dana 20 at any speed due to the design regardless of the shifter mechanism.

There is no speed shifting with a D20. You will need to come to a full stop to prevent losing or chipping teeth on the gears.
But I feel that a twin stick will make the shifting easier than a single stick. I base that on a 4R70W conversion experiences.
The twin sticks should fit in the same hole in the floor... But you are dealing with two sticks coming through the hole, so it may need you to clearance (widen) the hole. As they say, every bronco is a little different.

 

[EB70]

There is no speed shifting with a D20. You will need to come to a full stop to prevent losing or chipping teeth on the gears.
But I feel that a twin stick will make the shifting easier than a single stick. I base that on a 4R70W conversion experiences.
The twin sticks should fit in the same hole in the floor... But you are dealing with two sticks coming through the hole, so it may need you to clearance (widen) the hole. As they say, every bronco is a little different.

Ok fair enough. I primarily drive Dodge Cummins and Toyotas in the winter. I am not looking for a modern car feel. Just some improvement.

And I know 904 that you do alot of builds, are you guessing the same shifter for both tranny options? If I need to modify the hole that is fine.

 

[JB Fab]

YES- You can use our EB20T Type-1 (stock transmission/adapter application) with the stock manual or automatic configurations.
YES- If your hubs are locked, and you are are in rear-high, you will be able to engage/disengage your front drive in high, even at highway speeds. you can not shift from Low to High, or High to Low while moving
You would put a little pressure on the front drive shifter and 'blip' the throttle, it will typically slide right in. It is best to be not turning, it is important to have the same rolling diameter tires (aired up equally), can be a challenge if you have a spool/Lincoln-locker.
No internal modifications are required, unless you want the option of front wheel drive only.
Our EB20T Type-1 fit through the stock hole with minimal clearancing in some applications (typically applications with more than 1" body lift).

https://jb-custom-fabrication.mysho...-20-t-type-stainless-steel-twin-stick-shifter


Jon

 

[JB Fab]

There is no speed shifting with a D20. You will need to come to a full stop to prevent losing or chipping teeth on the gears.
But I feel that a twin stick will make the shifting easier than a single stick. I base that on a 4R70W conversion experiences.
The twin sticks should fit in the same hole in the floor... But you are dealing with two sticks coming through the hole, so it may need you to clearance (widen) the hole. As they say, every bronco is a little different.

What do you mean by "speed shifting"

 

[EB70]

YES- You can use our EB20T Type-1 (stock transmission/adapter application) with the stock manual or automatic configurations.
YES- If your hubs are locked, and you are are in rear-high, you will be able to engage/disengage your front drive in high, even at highway speeds. you can not shift from Low to High, or High to Low while moving
You would put a little pressure on the front drive shifter and 'blip' the throttle, it will typically slide right in. It is best to be not turning, it is important to have the same rolling diameter tires (aired up equally), can be a challenge if you have a spool/Lincoln-locker.
No internal modifications are required, unless you want the option of front wheel drive only.
Our EB20T Type-1 fit through the stock hole with minimal clearancing in some applications (typically applications with more than 1" body lift).

https://jb-custom-fabrication.mysho...-20-t-type-stainless-steel-twin-stick-shifter


Jon

Yes. TY. We've met at SOB before. I sent an email but my computer is old and I can't see that it went through. I am well-versed (old) with gear trains. I'm pretty good at feeling mechanical stuff when driving so I am not expecting miracles, but it has got to be better than this.

You described exactly what I am after. Driving down the road, hubs in and then I need to shift it into 4x4 for an icy section. Precisely what I am after.

TY so much, this answers my questions.

 

[EB70]

YES- You can use our EB20T Type-1 (stock transmission/adapter application) with the stock manual or automatic configurations.
YES- If your hubs are locked, and you are are in rear-high, you will be able to engage/disengage your front drive in high, even at highway speeds. you can not shift from Low to High, or High to Low while moving
You would put a little pressure on the front drive shifter and 'blip' the throttle, it will typically slide right in. It is best to be not turning, it is important to have the same rolling diameter tires (aired up equally), can be a challenge if you have a spool/Lincoln-locker.
No internal modifications are required, unless you want the option of front wheel drive only.
Our EB20T Type-1 fit through the stock hole with minimal clearancing in some applications (typically applications with more than 1" body lift).

https://jb-custom-fabrication.mysho...-20-t-type-stainless-steel-twin-stick-shifter


Jon

Also, 1" BL and cheap trac lock front diff. Just in and out on occasion on road. Off road I will be fine. No interest in front digs on this truck.

 

[904Bronco]

What do you mean by "speed shifting"

My reply was generic in response, since the original poster said shifting at speed and did not elaborate. Your response was more to the point and outlined the conditions that need to be present to shift while in motion...

 

[904Bronco]

Ok fair enough. I primarily drive Dodge Cummins and Toyotas in the winter. I am not looking for a modern car feel. Just some improvement.

And I know 904 that you do alot of builds, are you guessing the same shifter for both tranny options? If I need to modify the hole that is fine.

Ignore the fact that the shifter sits farther back due to the 4R70W conversion, this is the trimming that I had to do on Clifford with a 1" body lift

 

[EB70]

My reply was generic in response, since the original poster said shifting at speed and did not elaborate. Your response was more to the point and outlined the conditions that need to be present to shift while in motion...

I know what you mean. Not looking for 1990s Toyota manual shift quality if you’ve ever driven one you know what I’m talking about. Just something that is a little easier, basically as good as I can get out of a day 20 is what I’m after. I’ll adapt after that.

 

[Chiclassics]

You can go into 4wd high from 2wd high given your hubs are locked already. To make the shift easier you create slight acceleration or deceleration(5mph) while you engage front to high from neutral. Typically suggested to do this under 55mph not at 80mph which probably would be the case if you are driving on a rainy day or snowy day . I highly recommend against this because accidentally if you shift to a low it’s dangerous. Always best approach would be to pull over engage hubs and shift to 4high and wheh conditions get better pull over and unlock hubs and go 2high . Wheh in 4high avoid sharp turns as it will cause gear binding if the surface is not slippery enough.

 

[okie4570]

I've got a 71' with T shift and twin sticks and np435. I would run around OCBR all week with hubs locked, and in 2H rear and could easily go in and out of 4H at normal speeds if needed. 2L to 4L the same when actually going between obstacles no problem. Detroit in the rear, Spartan in the front so turning isn't easy on non-slippery surfaces with 36" tires. I've not tried it during normal slick winter conditions much with the 33' tires I normally run here in OK.

 

[JB Fab]

You can go into 4wd high from 2wd high given your hubs are locked already. To make the shift easier you create slight acceleration or deceleration(5mph) while you engage front to high from neutral. Typically suggested to do this under 55mph not at 80mph which probably would be the case if you are driving on a rainy day or snowy day . I highly recommend against this because accidentally if you shift to a low it’s dangerous. Always best approach would be to pull over engage hubs and shift to 4high and wheh conditions get better pull over and unlock hubs and go 2high . Wheh in 4high avoid sharp turns as it will cause gear binding if the surface is not slippery enough.

It can't shift into low while driving in high no matter how hard you try. the gears are moving two different speeds they can not engage. The result is an unsettling mechanical buzzing.
To prove/disprove the theory that if you accidently bumped your twin-stick while driveling you would grenade your D20. We tried it on the beach at about 30mph in a Bronco that was going to get the gears replaced with a 3:15 set. We made three attempts each using increasing force on the shifter. Inspection upon disassembly, there were obvious witness marks, but no significant damage (not recommended, but not grenaded either).

 

[Chiclassics]

Good to know never tried it but the thought of itself is very unsettling(like someone grinding their teeth). May be one food for thought (given you seem like fab stuff.) there should be some sort of manual locks on the twin shifters to engage to into low so it gives that piece of mind, not that it is needed. Would it cause the gear damage if someone tried it at high speeds? My guess is thats why ford made them single shifters to avoid the front / rear individual operation.

 

[JB Fab]

In the 90s we actually experimented with a locking detent that was cable controlled from a T-handle on each shifter.
The purpose was to keep the D20s from popping out.
It was determined that would be a bandaid to the real problems that make the D20 pop-out in the first place.
After seeing what the shift-forks looked like after forcing the sliding gear to stay in place the idea was shit-canned.

 

[Jdgephar]

Good to know never tried it but the thought of itself is very unsettling(like someone grinding their teeth). May be one food for thought (given you seem like fab stuff.) there should be some sort of manual locks on the twin shifters to engage to into low so it gives that piece of mind, not that it is needed. Would it cause the gear damage if someone tried it at high speeds? My guess is thats why ford made them single shifters to avoid the front / rear individual operation.

High vs Low is also pulling or pushing the twin sticks in opposite directions. You at least have the visual that both sticks need to go the same direction.