Vehicle modifications and DOT

[Yeller]

In the end, it's the owners responsibility to be driving a legal (DOT Approved) vehicle.

That’s just what we’re discovering a DOT approved vehicle is a myth. It’s up to the manufacturer to determine whether it’s “safe”. Now if it’s not the manufacturer could be liable of all sorts of things that could bankrupt Bill Gates.

Now I’ve been holding out some, I’ve studied this extensively, I don’t claim to know all and am always looking to learn more. Except a very short list of items there are no “approvals” for any thing and those that are it’s a matter of filling out the appropriate paper work and require no testing. Even wheels only require a weight rating to be approved, there are tests for those for a DOT stamp but only a weight rating is required, and that’s proven with the number of poorly cast Chinese wheels that have been sold here for decades with just a weight rating.

Which brings up another related subject that really is federal law. If your vehicle is road legal in your home registered state it’s legal anywhere in the country no matter what the local mounty says, if he/she causes you grief about your modified vehicle that is not related to a traffic violation he is in direct violation of federal law.

 

[blubuckaroo]

That’s just what we’re discovering a DOT approved vehicle is a myth. It’s up to the manufacturer to determine whether it’s “safe”. Now if it’s not the manufacturer could be liable of all sorts of things that could bankrupt Bill Gates.

Now I’ve been holding out some, I’ve studied this extensively, I don’t claim to know all and am always looking to learn more. Except a very short list of items there are no “approvals” for any thing and those that are it’s a matter of filling out the appropriate paper work and require no testing. Even wheels only require a weight rating to be approved, there are tests for those for a DOT stamp but only a weight rating is required, and that’s proven with the number of poorly cast Chinese wheels that have been sold here for decades with just a weight rating.

Which brings up another related subject that really is federal law. If your vehicle is road legal in your home registered state it’s legal anywhere in the country no matter what the local mounty says, if he/she causes you grief about your modified vehicle that is not related to a traffic violation he is in direct violation of federal law.

Yes, It does sound like you've had some experience with this issue.
Was you case a failure or a success for you?

 

[Yeller]

It was prefailure research. I used to own (actually still do, but is fairly inactive) a company that built parts and specialized in custom suspensions, link conversions, coilover installs and the such. It was an excercise in weighing liability.

I probably should appologize for digging and poking to see if anyone had anything new that I haven’t found but I really wanted to think and discuss to see if there are angles I hadn’t looked at. I’m by no means an expert, just have some experience and really keep trying to fact check my interpretations. By no means is this thread exhausted, please speak your mind and experiences I want to hear it.

 

[blubuckaroo]

Which brings up another related subject that really is federal law. If your vehicle is road legal in your home registered state it’s legal anywhere in the country no matter what the local mounty says, if he/she causes you grief about your modified vehicle that is not related to a traffic violation he is in direct violation of federal law.

In that case, good luck with any CA vehicles entering your state. CA has absolutely no periodic or other vehicle inspection other than emissions tests.
I'd have no problem with emissions tests, as long as it was part of a vehicle safety check.
Bad tires and brakes are a real hazard in CA.

 

[savage]

In Washington state, my 97 dodge diesel, fail the emission test and I had to get a waiver. I have a banks after market intake, KN filter. the waiver said (Inspected the vehicle and found the vehicle has a Banks intake and K/N filter. The label is installed correct under the hood for the after market equipment) I failed again then they do a vehicle inspection to check if it has all the stock parts, Which you can see plain as day the engine is not stock.but the stickers say they comply with carb. Plus I have no cat on the truck. I passed inspection and got my tabs. I think it comes down to the persons or officers interpretation on the laws in their state.;D

 

[savage]

In that case, good luck with any CA vehicles entering your state. CA has absolutely no periodic or other vehicle inspection other than emissions tests.
I'd have no problem with emissions tests, as long as it was part of a vehicle safety check.
Bad tires and brakes are a real hazard in CA.

What does bad tires and bad breaks ,have to do with getting your vehicle emission testing. I feel they should be separate from each other.(emission testing and safety inspections) When a semi gets pulled over they can give you a safety inspection. I do agree on the safety inspection, just keep it separate from the emission part.

 

[blubuckaroo]

What does bad tires and bad breaks ,have to do with getting your vehicle emission testing. I feel they should be separate from each other.(emission testing and safety inspections) When a semi gets pulled over they can give you a safety inspection. I do agree on the safety inspection, just keep it separate from the emission part.

Sure, but you can see where the State of CA puts its priorities.
Like my old Dad told me, if you have a question about government, "follow the money."

 

[savage]

Sure, but you can see where the State of CA puts its priorities.
Like my old Dad told me, if you have a question about government, "follow the money."

what sad is, I know a bunch of owner operators that turn down loads that are going to California ,because of the vehicle emission inspection and safety inspection are so ridiculous. If you don't own a newer truck,you get the shaft,with a older truck.:-[

 

[HB73]

you don't own a pretty new truck,you get the shaft,with a older truck.:-[

How do all the Mexican truckers coming across at TJ do it? Those rigs don't seem too new.

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[savage]

you don't own a pretty new truck,you get the shaft,with a older truck.:-[

How do all the Mexican truckers coming across at TJ do it? Those rigs don't seem too new.

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That's what makes no sense!! where I work ,we here about how bad California is to enter, from Oregon SIDE. When it comes to those Mexican trucks, they must not travel to far north. I know D.O.T for years have been trying to keep the unsafe trucks out of the US.

 

[Yeller]

In that case, good luck with any CA vehicles entering your state. CA has absolutely no periodic or other vehicle inspection other than emissions tests.
I'd have no problem with emissions tests, as long as it was part of a vehicle safety check.
Bad tires and brakes are a real hazard in CA.

you'd be amazed how many states do not have any inspections, no emissions or safety. I quit keeping up with it, but its a lot. Oklahoma is one of them, lots of smokey, bald tire, no brakes, uninsured death traps here.

 

[bmc69]

FWIW...my brother was driving my '78 Bronc when he was involved in an accident there one child was killed and another very seriously injured. 4" lift, rolling on 35s..he went straight in the back of a stopped-to-turn Mustang after a vehicle my brother was following failed to apply any brakes and rear-ended the Mustang a glancing blow, veering off to the side. Road was wet..visiblity not good. The Bronco went straight in to, and up over, the back of the Mustang, crushing the rear half of the car underneath it.

My truck was kept in impound for more than a month as state, local and private investigators went over it again and again with a fine toothed comb, looking for any modification that they could point to to support charges and the 8 million dollar lawsuit filed against me personally. Fortunately..they found nothing. My bumper heights were within state limit..a crucial detail. The steering, while modified with dropped pitman arm, was not found to be a problem.*

The suit was eventually dismissed and no charges were filed against me or my brother.

So yeah..it's when shit like that happens that "mods can matter".


* the pitman arm was bent backwards..completely. So when the roll back finally brought my poor truck home and dropped it off, it started right up but I had to turn the wheel left to go right and visa versa.

 

[Boss Hugg]

you'd be amazed how many states do not have any inspections, no emissions or safety. I quit keeping up with it, but its a lot. Oklahoma is one of them, lots of smokey, bald tire, no brakes, uninsured death traps here.

This explains why I come up behind SO many slow OK drivers... I find them doing 60 on a 75mph interstate... or 30 on a corner with a sign warning to 45mph...

SMH....

 

[Yeller]

FWIW...my brother was driving my '78 Bronc when he was involved in an accident there one child was killed and another very seriously injured. 4" lift, rolling on 35s..he went straight in the back of a stopped-to-turn Mustang after a vehicle my brother was following failed to apply any brakes and rear-ended the Mustang a glancing blow, veering off to the side. Road was wet..visiblity not good. The Bronco went straight in to, and up over, the back of the Mustang, crushing the rear half of the car underneath it.

My truck was kept in impound for more than a month as state, local and private investigators went over it again and again with a fine toothed comb, looking for any modification that they could point to to support charges and the 8 million dollar lawsuit filed against me personally. Fortunately..they found nothing. My bumper heights were within state limit..a crucial detail. The steering, while modified with dropped pitman arm, was not found to be a problem.*

The suit was eventually dismissed and no charges were filed against me or my brother.

So yeah..it's when shit like that happens that "mods can matter".


* the pitman arm was bent backwards..completely. So when the roll back finally brought my poor truck home and dropped it off, it started right up but I had to turn the wheel left to go right and visa versa.

That spells out my concerns to a tee, exactly why I researched in depth and was very careful about wording on invoices and a huge disclaimer on them. Glad it worked out for you

 

[Broncobowsher]

Lawyers are well known to apply the shotgun method. Blame everyone and everything, throw out a high dollar amount. Stand back and see what sticks. Once accused you are guilty until proven innocent. They hope for a quick cash settlement instead of court.

In another hobby of mine (diving) the lawyers went after someone so aggressively, and they were proven innocent even through a few appeals that the prosecuting family (who was looking to get rich quick via a shady lawyer) ended up loosing everything to the defendant. Not a common result, but it does sometimes happen. Little things like expert witnesses that were little more then used car salesmen. It was ugly, but good in the end. It was the lawyers who still made the money in the end and there is little stopping them.

 

[broncnaz]

Sometimes a shady area but will most likely come down to interpertation of what is compliant for use vs legal or illegal. Parts manufacturers are supposed to self certify that parts are in compliance with FMVSS and any other pertaining regulations. It could be that things like Hiems could comply but one one has ensured they do and certified them.
SEMA has some decent info on parts. https://www.sema.org/federal-regula...utmk=5568379#Vehicle-Parts-Standards-Overview

Maybe a little more clarification on DOT. or if you will NHTSA

Many aftermarket parts are regulated by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) based on safety needs. Generally, the agency regulates equipment that is required on all new motor vehicles. Emissions-related parts are regulated by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, California Air Resources Board and other state agencies. An aftermarket part may be directly regulated (ex: lighting equipment, tires, mirrors, brake hoses) or it may be indirectly regulated (i.e., a part may not take the vehicle out-of-compliance when installed). In all cases, NHTSA can regulate any equipment that poses a safety concern. States are free to enact equipment regulations which are identical to NHTSA standards or, in the absence of a federal rule, establish their own laws and regulations. The most frequent examples of individual state rules cover parts like auxiliary lighting equipment, noise levels for exhaust and stereo systems, suspension height and window-tinting. It is the responsibility of the manufacturer to be aware of federal and state laws and regulations in order to meet compliance requirements.

Is “DOT-approved” a legal term?
No, NHTSA has no authority to "approve" or "disapprove" vehicle equipment. The equipment is self-certified. Sometimes the term is confused with the DOT symbol, which is required to be placed by the manufacturer on certain items of equipment such as headlamps. This is simply an affirmative statement by the manufacturer that the equipment is compliant with an applicable NHTSA rule.

Is “For Off-Road Use Only” a legal term?
"Off-road" and "off-road vehicles" are not terms defined in NHTSA regulations and therefore have no legal meaning. Simply stated, the manufacturer cannot control or enforce how the product is used (for off-road use only). Any equipment which is subject to the FMVSS or manufactured to replace equipment covered by the FMVSS must be compliant.

 

[Yeller]

Well stated Broncnaz. Your statement supports all of my findings. And you are correct about the “off highway service only” has no binding limitation, it’s s disclaimer for the manufacturer to deny liability if there is a crash. Manufacturers often use word plays in an attempt to reduce liability.