Venting a Charcoal Carbon Vapor Canister...

[DirtDonk]

Agree. I think I've seen ghost images showing the inside, but don't know where they might be. I'm sure a google search would turn something up when you have the time. I might do it sometime too, but not high on my list of "ways to spend my time" right now.
Really, I'm just way too easily sidetracked to so that three minute search and browse session turns into a three hour "cool, look at that will ya" session. Or even more often, a "squirrel!" hunt.%)

So I'm not going there right now and you're on 'yer own!;D

Paul

 

[fordguy]

Just to add...

Fox body Mustang CC and my 2000 Explorer motor. EFI Guy was able to add a purge valve to the harness he reworked.

One thing I noticed in cleaning up parts is that the plastic coupling between the line to the manifold and to the 90* elbow has a brass restrictor in it... Never noticed it B4 but I can see the reason behind it.

I can say everything works fine going this route.

Doug, is that the purge valve in line by the cansister

 

[KeithKinPhx]

http://repairguide.autozone.com/zne...00c152/80/06/93/5d/large/0900c1528006935d.gif

This is a diagram for most mid 90s Fords

 

[904Bronco]

Doug, is that the purge valve in line by the cansister

Yes, yes it is... From a Fox body Mustang, probably and earlier one, since they got a little slimmer in the later years...

 

[fordguy]

thanks Doug, can you post a pic of where it goes in the manifold?

 

[904Bronco]

thanks Doug, can you post a pic of where it goes in the manifold?

Well on a 5.0 Mustang upper, from the factory it is one of the vacuum ports in front...

For the Explorer upper, from the factory it is the one on the drvrs side front.

I actually used the power Brk port at the rear of the upper and used a brass reducer... All of the other ports I had already removed the fitting, tapped and plugged the hole(s).

 

[fordguy]

thanks Doug, I am not going to plug any holes until I get everything plumbed and figured out.

 

[fordguy]

http://repairguide.autozone.com/zne...00c152/80/06/93/5d/large/0900c1528006935d.gif

This is a diagram for most mid 90s Fords

Can you find this stuff on the autozone website?

 

[fordguy]

looked on autozone, got an error message saying they did not have a repair manual for 2000 exp w/5.0 hmmmm...

 

[McLeod]

http://repairguide.autozone.com/zne...00c152/80/06/93/5d/large/0900c1528006935d.gif

This is a diagram for most mid 90s Fords

Thanks Keith-

As far as I can tell, Ford #E2ZZ9D653A (AKA: CX741) was used on 79-95 Mustangs and 86 through at least 96 F/Bronco trucks.

The one I have on my shelf has each port embossed with an alphabetic character.
I wonder if there is a legend somewhere denoting the official Ford prescribed intentions.......


Do you all run rubber fuel line from tank to CC or do you run a metal line with rubber only at the ends?

 

[KeithKinPhx]

I ran rubber the whole way in my 68. I went from vent port on my 23 gal tank up in a loop towards the filler neck then back down to the frame. I want to keep the liquid in the line to a minimum and believe the loop plus gravity will help. Liquid in the vent line is bad and is one of the reasons you are not supposed to overfill your tank on newer vehicles. Which if you think about it, we are making our classics into modern machines. I don't have one of those separator contraptions found behind the drivers seat in the mid 70's models. Not wild about bringing fuel inside the cabin but Ford thought differently (another Pinto idea I think).

Not to muddy the water but I would love to find a way to put the vapor canister up high by the filler neck and run just the purge line to the bay. Several new cars have their canisters back there. Hmm maybe a new project.

 

[McLeod]

Did you put thought into condensation turning back into a liquid after cooling down and potentially some time later blocking the vent line due to having the high loop?

 

[DirtDonk]

...I don't have one of those separator contraptions found behind the drivers seat in the mid 70's models. Not wild about bringing fuel inside the cabin but Ford thought differently (another Pinto idea I think).

Yep, but that changed with, you know... Those damn federal regulations! They actually changed to the engine compartment mounted one in '76 (maybe following car regulations?), while pickup trucks didn't have to remove their in-cab gas tanks until mid-'77 production.
They are definitely troublesome, so it's good to avoid.

Not to muddy the water but I would love to find a way to put the vapor canister up high by the filler neck and run just the purge line to the bay. Several new cars have their canisters back there. Hmm maybe a new project.

You can probably do that. But it might be even easier to do it like Ford did in '76 and mount it high up on the firewall on the passenger side.
Or like a friend of mine did by mounting the same plastic tank up in the front wheel well. It's pretty hidden in the front corner up high. Simple matter of running the line then from the canister to the engine.
I don't see anything wrong with any of the options there, but don't know whether there was an engineering reason they were never mounted back by the tanks to begin with. I think many modern cars have the canisters near the tanks, so maybe it's all about valving and control?

Anyway, putting his up in the front fender well solved a lot of problems for this one. Sorry I don't know where the pics are, but it's pretty clean.
Cleaner still probably due to the dual-shock hoop giving some camouflage.

Paul

 

[McLeod]

Well, I don't think it has anything to do with the climate but more to do with gasoline vapors changing back to a liquid form as they cool (or whatever).
Granted, it may take a while, but I could see the potential for the liquid to block the vent.

http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=160/mode=cat/cat160.htm

If you are running a vent line it is important that the line is ran higher than the highest point on the tank including the fuel filler neck. Also, the vent line cannot have a dip in it where fuel or condensation can get trapped in the line. If fuel becomes trapped in the line your tank will then build pressure or vacuum until there is enough pressure to purge the vent which will cause gas and/or odor to come from the vent line. If enough pressure builds up damage could be caused to your tank

Also, I noticed that the CC on my mid 90's Ford p/u is mounted darn near at frame level , which is much lower than the gas tank inlets on the bed. Hmmm....

Anyhow..... great ideas from everyone!

 

[fordguy]

where can you get the mushroom caps for the canister?

 

[McLeod]

Two sources from a previous thread.

$1.50 ea
https://www.npdlink.com/store/produ...or_storage_canister_original-165320-6136.html

$7.95 includes shipping
http://www.foxresto.com/1979-93-Mustang-5-0-Charcoal-Canister-Cap-p/4879006.htm

 

[904Bronco]

where can you get the mushroom caps for the canister?

Sorry I was suppose to get that for you... Total Brain Fart on me.

NPD's ones worked for me. I had to do some minor trimming on the inside part of the mushroom cap with an exzacto knife to get a nice tight fit on my CC.

 

[fordguy]

Sorry I was suppose to get that for you... Total Brain Fart on me.

NPD's ones worked for me. I had to do some minor trimming on the inside part of the mushroom cap with an exzacto knife to get a nice tight fit on my CC.

thanks, i plan on going to pull a part and getting a canister and purge valve.

 

[McLeod]

Most of the wrecking yard pieces will have a cap already- maybe even two.

(I think I might have found a new thing to hoard .....)

 

[KeithKinPhx]

I was thinking of the liquid in the vent line issue. If liquid were to get in the line it would not be an issue until the liquid filled the vapor canister and began to overflow. Assuming the canister is mounted higher than your tank, you have on a gas cap and your Bronco had all four wheels on the ground that is an unlikely scenario.

If liquid were to enter the vapor line then as fuel is pumped out of the tank into the engine a small amount of suction would be created within the tank. Air would be drawn into the tank thru the canister thru dust cap #1. Gravity would pull the fuel back to the tank and that air flow would eventually dry out the line. Also any vapors or liquid in the canister would be drawn thru the purge line and consumed by the engine. If the engine was not running, the fuel would slowly vaporize and be captured by the charcoal in the canister. It is interesting to note that several vehicles have liquid/vapor separators between the tank and the canister.

The question is how to connect to a standard carburetor (or Coyote). I have my purge line connected to the air cleaner between the filter and the throat of the FiTech EFI. A control valve is operated by a vacuum line of the FiTech. So if the engine is not running or is not pulling enough vacuum then all vapors are passed thru the canister and vented into the air. If the vacuum activated valve is open due the engine running, the air would be pulled into the carb thru the canister and the vapors burned.

I would not connect the purge line to a vacuum port as you would have basically a giant vacuum leak, albeit a potentially fuel rich one. I would also not connect without a purge valve because when the engine was off the vapors could pass thru into the carburetor air filter into the garage without going thru the charcoal in the canister.

Having walked thru this mentally I do not see the need for my loop up to the gas tank fill neck and think the correct routing would be one where the vapor line from the tank always was above the tank and ideally had a gentle rise to the vapor canister. I think I will look into hiding my canister on the inside of the driver fender near the antenna.