Welding

[mp]

I saved up and bought a Miller 211. Then took a local community college welding course in the evenings, and really improved my welds, and got more comfortable MIG welding. The only downside is the course was focused on structural welding, and not sheet metal welding thin stuff. Got to keep practicing on that.

 

[Yeller]

since were on topic, besides machines, wire is a big deal. For body work everyone wants to use .023 or .024 wire, why? .035 deposits the same about of metal 66% faster. doing body work your trying to control heat in the panel. welding longer at lower amperage puts more heat in a panel than welding faster at a higher amperage. the trick to controlling warpage is putting less heat in the base metal, which larger wire welding faster puts less heat into the base metal. Just things to consider. If your not blowing holes in the sheet metal, you will get less warpage with larger wire.

I know someone will argue, but welding hot and fast creates less warpage, its science. I wish I could find a welding school that teaches science and not art or what some good ole boy taught the instructor, it would save me a lot of time and I might be able to hire welders that could weld and truly understood what they are doing. I have yet to find a welding student that understands welding as a science, I have 3 world renowned schools within 15 minutes of me and its painful to interview their grads. If we get as far as a weld test the smart ones are pissed after 10 minutes of coaching about what they don't know.

And yes warpage is a super technical term

 

[Timmy390]

I'm pin pretty much the same situation.
I just bought a Hobart 140 to do the floor and body work on my '62 Ranchero project.
One thing that's confusing to me is the wire and tip sizing Hobart has.
They have .024" wire and .023" tips. How could that fit?
I asked the salesman at Tractor Supply about it, and of course, he couldn't help.
On line, I found the same thing.

https://www.hobartwelders.com/consumables/filler-metal-wire-rod/solid-wire/steel-m30201
https://www.hobartwelders.com/consumables/contact-tips

I guess the advice I got to go to a "bonafide" weld shop went on deaf ears with me.?:?

That question has been ask on the Hobart forum a few times. Found some posts when I did a search. Seems everyone says .023, .024 and .025 wire is all the same. Seem odd.....they referenced the .001-.002 difference as being the same wire size by different names?

I would give it a try and see if it feeds. If not, use the next size up tip. I know....tips are for XYZ wire for a reason.....but it really should't make a difference in this case.......JMO

Tim

 

[jim3326]

I don't know why everyone is so dead set on using 75/25 gas. I use CO2 myself with hard wire and can use dual shield for the heavier steel with the same bottle. It works better outside if there is a little breeze or if you want a fan blowing inside. And I can take the bottle to use as a 'PowerTank' instead of paying triple for the name, plus a CO2 bottle will last through multiple spools of wire compared to gas. I have a 50# bottle and can go through 3 44# spools before I need a new one.

I hear most like 75/25 better because it has less spatter, seems to me the settings aren't quite right if that's the case, I could never see a big enough difference to justify the cost difference. JMHO

 

[bronkenn]

since were on topic, besides machines, wire is a big deal. For body work everyone wants to use .023 or .024 wire, why? .035 deposits the same about of metal 66% faster. doing body work your trying to control heat in the panel. welding longer at lower amperage puts more heat in a panel than welding faster at a higher amperage. the trick to controlling warpage is putting less heat in the base metal, which larger wire welding faster puts less heat into the base metal. Just things to consider. If your not blowing holes in the sheet metal, you will get less warpage with larger wire.

I know someone will argue, but welding hot and fast creates less warpage, its science.

I totally agree. I use .035 for all my body work. It fills faster and does a better job. When I did sheet metal work at GM all I used there was .045 wire and it worked great. I replaced a lot of sheet metal there.

 

[Yeller]

I totally agree. I use .035 for all my body work. It fills faster and does a better job. When I did sheet metal work at GM all I used there was .045 wire and it worked great. I replaced a lot of sheet metal there.[/QUOTE

Correct, I didn’t bring up .045 because most machines under 250 amp won’t suport it. And for most welding takes more practice because you have to move to keep beads from being huge.

On bead size, bigger is not always better. A 3/16” filet weld on 1/4” plate is sufficient with proper technique. Most guys will do a 3/8” way over kill but even most expierenced welders use poor technique so over welding literally is holding the world together. Gee Wiz tid bit. In a production setting the difference between 3/16” and 1/4” bead in dollars is 77%

For gas I prefer 85/15 or 90/10 it allows for spray transfer which you can’t get to with 75/25 or pure co2 and makes for a cleaner weld. FYI if your having lots of spatter turn your voltage down. In the simplest terms (minus a lot of science and novel) voltage controls how fluid the puddle is, think water or putty. Wire speed is amperage or heat. More wire speed the hotter the weld and the faster you can move. Voltage increases amperage but at a much smaller rate

 

[Skiddy]

since were on topic, besides machines, wire is a big deal. For body work everyone wants to use .023 or .024 wire, why? .035 deposits the same about of metal 66% faster. doing body work your trying to control heat in the panel. welding longer at lower amperage puts more heat in a panel than welding faster at a higher amperage. the trick to controlling warpage is putting less heat in the base metal, which larger wire welding faster puts less heat into the base metal. Just things to consider. If your not blowing holes in the sheet metal, you will get less warpage with larger wire.

I know someone will argue, but welding hot and fast creates less warpage, its science. I wish I could find a welding school that teaches science and not art or what some good ole boy taught the instructor, it would save me a lot of time and I might be able to hire welders that could weld and truly understood what they are doing. I have yet to find a welding student that understands welding as a science, I have 3 world renowned schools within 15 minutes of me and its painful to interview their grads. If we get as far as a weld test the smart ones are pissed after 10 minutes of coaching about what they don't know.

And yes warpage is a super technical term

lol know what you mean. I have tested a lot of the "world renowned schools" and "I am state certified" welders and most don't pass%).
when I went to classes for my inspection license. the engineers had trouble in one area, welders had issues in the other and then everyone had trouble with the hands on section;D

 

[Remos69]

Florida has some very good vocational schools, check out the local one in Naples and see if they are offering the auto body curriculum as there is a good welding component offered in Sarasota. You get to use quality equipment and is good for learning what how why.....

 

[blubuckaroo]

That question has been ask on the Hobart forum a few times. Found some posts when I did a search. Seems everyone says .023, .024 and .025 wire is all the same. Seem odd.....they referenced the .001-.002 difference as being the same wire size by different names?

I would give it a try and see if it feeds. If not, use the next size up tip. I know....tips are for XYZ wire for a reason.....but it really should't make a difference in this case.......JMO

Tim

Thanks Tim
Mark

 

[JT58]

Florida has some very good vocational schools, check out the local one in Naples and see if they are offering the auto body curriculum as there is a good welding component offered in Sarasota. You get to use quality equipment and is good for learning what how why.....

Sounds good if I can get that far. I have the hurdle of dragging family into this and it's a mess. The GF's son wants a specific welder, apparently hard to get and he's busy with other jobs, Bronco can't be moved as it's too fragile and I have to get it out of the garage and into a storage unit ASAP. Being in the garage has created so much friction in the family. I live in an association (with my GF) where you are not ever supposed to work on your cars or even have your garage doors open. (We snuck it in there). If/when the son can get at least some braces and a floor in, I can move it out of there and continue to look for a body shop somewhere to work on it--or get my own place and do it myself. What a complicated mess- all from two guys who scammed me- I can only hope Karma gets them!

 

[sprdv1]

I’m sorry you got taken for all that cash but congrats on the drive to do it yourself. You will definitely have a good feeling of accomplishment when someone ask who did the work and you respond, I did! I would recommend at least a 120 amp MIG with .030 wire. If you have access to 240v service, get a 180 amp machine. You’ll be able to weld anything you want, from sheet metal to shock towers and bumpers. I learned to weld when I was 14 so I know you can do it. Good luck.

Can't help but love being able to do it yourself...

 

[JT58]

Well we started the tear down and welding. The welder is a Miller and we are using Argon gas. It's pretty straight forward and going quite well.

A question on the welding- he is welding the panels with what seems to be a good solid weld every inch or so, then grinding almost flush. He mentioned sealing the gaps in between with seam sealer? Are the welds supposed to be continuous welded along all seams?

 

[bronkenn]

No just welded every 1.5 inches or so. It would cause some serious warpage if you run a continuous bead.

 

[half cab]

And yes on the seam sealer to.

 

[JT58]

Thanks again, my son in law knows what he is doing!

 

[half cab]

Thanks again, my son in law knows what he is doing!

Yup sure sounds like it

 

[Maddog B]

It’s a little time consuming, but when I weld sheet metal panels I spot weld them about 6 inches apart. I use compressed air to cool the weld and continue to spot weld in between until it’s completely filled in. I get very little warpage from this and the seam is fully welded so no chance of rust to come back through. When I’m done all I have to do is grind the weld smooth and skim a light coat of body filler to get it perfect. There are many ways to do things but I found this works best for me. Good luck.

 

[sykanr0ng]

It’s a little time consuming, but when I weld sheet metal panels I spot weld them about 6 inches apart. I use compressed air to cool the weld and continue to spot weld in between until it’s completely filled in. I get very little warpage from this and the seam is fully welded so no chance of rust to come back through. When I’m done all I have to do is grind the weld smooth and skim a light coat of body filler to get it perfect. There are many ways to do things but I found this works best for me. Good luck.

An old hot rod builder and body man told me to do it that way except for the compressed air.
I would be concerned about too rapid cooling causing it to warp.