Who's running this cam XE264HR-14/35-349-8

[Timmy390]

I heard all softball canceled due to weather, during OCBR.....

I wish..........There's a chance we might be free that weekend.......Not a good chance but a chance......

Tim

 

[Joe473]

My setup will end up being

351W GT40 top end, stock bottom end (cam to be determined)
ZF 5 speed
4.11 gears
17x8.5 Method Wheels 285x75x17 Nitto Grappler MT Tires 33's

Right now I have 32's and stock 3 speed, 4.11's

Tim

Guys feel free to chime in. I'm not easily offended, thinking out loud here based on what I've read recently and may help Tim to hear other opinions.
You will need more Gear for that cam. Notice Viperwolf is running 4.88's check his tire size. I'm running 30x9.50 with 3.50 gears and considering 4.11's min. It's a beast above 3000 rpm but below it feels only a little better than a good running 302.
Also remember this is all based on the combo of parts. As far as cam lift from What I remember GT-40 stock heads unported and stock valves show no improvement over.500 lift. i wouldn't go with a cam with more lift without better heads.
I'm running a weiand stealth and 1.12 autolite. I am very happy with the way it runs, simplicity, and throttle response. For that combo though i think peak power is a little high and I am losing out on the top end. By advancing the cam it's pulls the powerband back a little and may help more in the mid range and make the cam match the stockish flowing components.

In your case with ford Fuel injection I would expect more low end torque based on the plenum volume but I am curious if the intake and head flow can keep up with the cam as ground. So suggestions:

use a timing set you can degree as until you change gears you may want to advance it.
Check out similar lift and duration grinds. 35-320 is close and has same lobe lift, valve lift is increased only be 1.7 rocker recommendation. use 1.6 and it's .512. That cam has a 2 degree advance ground in though.
35-413 is a retrofit roller but is actually ground 4 degrees advanced and otherwise the same as 35-349 lowering the RPM range

I did a quick check using camquest app and assuming stock heads, edelbrock performer intake 600 CFM carb and shorty headers the 35-413(or advanced 35-349) grind made more peak power in simulation while lowering powerband to what i feel would be better in a truck.

I will repeat though with both of our rig's a new Ring and pinion will be required to make good use of the power and OD transmission. Thats a winter project for me but advancing the cam i may do if I get a free weekend or rainy weekend where I can't drive the truck.

Good luck hope this helps.

 

[Timmy390]

Keep me honest here....

XE264HR/35-349-8 has an Lobe Separation of 114 and a Intake Center Line of 110 so it has 4 degrees ground into it already. So installing it straight up I will still have 4 degrees advanced. Advancing it 4 degrees during install would give me 8 degrees total advanced ?

The spring kit I ordered for the GT40P's will support up to a .540 lift. From what I've been reading the cams I'm looking at are borderline for GT40's or GT40P's. Much more and you need to do some porting and or just go aluminiums.

The ZF will happen but it's going to be a year or so before I can get to it.

Yeah, I know I'm going to need more gear. Going 4.11's was a mistake on my part.

Tim

 

[Joe473]

The advance is all a point of reference the cam straight up can only have retard or advance as compared to other cams.

Look at the spec sheet and look at valve opening and closing events. You will notice the 35-349 opens intake at 22 deg BTDC the 35-413 opens at 26 BTDC . The lower intake centerline number is the more advanced the cam is as compared to others is the way I understand it.
All other things equal my understanding is this lower number will lower powerband, increase vacuum, and lower dynamic compression. Of course there is a point where you have diminishing return s and PTV clearance issues so use caution.
On the head the springs are a limiting factor and you were smart to upgrade them but the valves and runners I believe max out right around .500 lift also which is why I chose not to go with a cam above the .512.


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[Timmy390]

This thread should have been titled differently.....LOL

The 35-413-8 is a non starter for me. From Comp "For engines that DID NOT come from the factory with hydraulic roller cams, NOT FOR E.F.I."

The 35-320-8 is designed to be used with 1.7 ratio roller rockers so I think it's out too as I'm sticking to the stock rockers.

I think I'm down to either

Comp 35-308-8/266HR (Norcal guys love this cam)
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 266/270
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 210/215
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .533/.533
LSA/ICL:114/110
RPM Range:1200-5200

Comp 35-349-8/XE264HR
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 264/270
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 212/218
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .512/.512
LSA/ICL:114/110
RPM Range: 1,500-5,500

Lunati 20350612
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 276/284
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 210/218
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .525/.525
LSA/ICL: 112/108
RPM Range: 1000-5200

Maybe ViperWolf will see this and throw them (along with the Exploder cam) in the Desk Top Dyno and give me another graph to look at. I have to say, the Lunati has me thinking.

Tim

 

[Viperwolf1]

I did a lot of research before I chose my cam. The stock F4TE cam is great for torque but it's all done by 4500 rpm, which is probably fine for most people. As I recall it didn't look too bad if you retard it 8 degrees and used some better heads to pickup the high end a little.

510A10LUN is the 20350612 cam. The 308 is terrible for torque but good for horsepower.

edit: I made a mistake in the original data for the lunati cam. I had it set for a flat hydraulic lifter instead of roller. The 2nd chart shows the correct curves. The lunati is very close to the F4TE.

 

[Timmy390]

Thanks ViperWolf1 I know it's time consuming plugging all that info into the DTD

Looks like Comp 35-349-8/XE264HR was the clear ovarall winner

Tim

 

[Joe473]

Great graph. I was curious about the 308 also when I was looking. On the 35- 413 cam yes it is a no starter as a roller retrofit but it appears if you advance the 35-349 4 degrees you end up with the 35-413 power band. I may still try this to bring the torque in sooner like an explorer cam but have top end still above 5k. I have 9.5:1 CR ratio so the lower dynamic cylinder pressure from the advance shouldn't hurt much.

How much is the DTD software?

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[rguest3]

Timmy - That would be a VERY nice cam for a street driven 351w. Lots of torque and great overall. I have had this stated Cam in a very nice 347 with great results. Computer Compatible as well with the 114 LSA.

Another Option - My next build has the XE258HR-12 - 208, 216 Duration and .533, .544 lift. Just a little lower RPM and Tons of torque at low RPM. (This Cam is paired with AFR 165cc Heads, GT-40 Intake with 95 Cobra Upper and #30 Injectors)

 

[Viperwolf1]

I made a correction to my graph above.

 

[Viperwolf1]

Great graph. I was curious about the 308 also when I was looking. On the 35- 413 cam yes it is a no starter as a roller retrofit but it appears if you advance the 35-349 4 degrees you end up with the 35-413 power band. I may still try this to bring the torque in sooner like an explorer cam but have top end still above 5k. I have 9.5:1 CR ratio so the lower dynamic cylinder pressure from the advance shouldn't hurt much.

How much is the DTD software?

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The 349 and 413 are within 2 ft-lbs until 4500 rpm. Then the 413 does a little better. Probably due to the scavenging effect with the increased valve overlap. Advancing the 349 just takes away it's top end.

 

[Joe473]

Thanks for that. Looks like the LSA has an impact on top end but would make bottom end suffer for the 413 grind. I was too focused on the duration lift and open close events. The grind is probably advanced to compensate for the increased LSA over the 349 cam

So in the case of poorly matched gearing in Timmys 351 and my 347 you would expect little to no benefit advancing the 349 cam to slide powerband down? No significant increase in Low rpm torque with the loss of top end?
I thought it may be worth a shot since it only costs a timing gasket set.



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[Viperwolf1]

Thanks for that. Looks like the LSA has an impact on top end but would make bottom end suffer for the 413 grind. I was too focused on the duration lift and open close events. The grind is probably advanced to compensate for the increased LSA over the 349 cam

So in the case of poorly matched gearing in Timmys 351 and my 347 you would expect little to no benefit advancing the 349 cam to slide powerband down? No significant increase in Low rpm torque with the loss of top end?
I thought it may be worth a shot since it only costs a timing gasket set.



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Advancing the 349 any amount takes away at least 1 or 2 ft-lbs on the low end. Retarding it 2 degrees is a near match for the 413 curve on both ends.

 

[Timmy390]

Thanks for all the help and advice on this.

The trigger has been pulled on the Comp 35-349-8/XE264HR

Can't wait to get this project rolling again.

Tim

 

[partsloco]

I've have tried 5 different cam's in my bronco in the last 20 years. I actually had the XE264HR but I went back to the stock F4TE Explorer/Truck cam. I'm running a 351W F4TE roller block. I like the immediate throttle response of the F4TE and stock converter. I have tried many converter cam combos over the years. I dragged raced for many years and it took me a long time to get used to the fact that smaller is better in are trucks. Small valve, small cam, small intake runners. My latest build is all about velocity and throttle response.