Pitman Arm Positioning and tie rod ends??

[LouB]

1972, 302, power steering
My EB has always steered horrible; It appears one of the PO's put f-150 coils under it. I am not sure it has the correct c-bushings and I think the caster is off. It also has a ton of play in the steering wheel. So last night I pulled the tie rod and drag link off. I noticed the studs in the tie-rod ends and drag link end all move about one eighth to a quarter inch, inside the ball. My thoughts are the steering is shot; please confirm…..
Also; with the drag link off, I centered my steering wheel. The pitman arm is not parallel to the frame; instead, the end points out toward the passenger side 23 degrees. Is that right? or should it be parallel with the frame? Sorry for being so wordy

TIA Lou

 

[tshep911]

Lou,
I have a new tie rod/drag link set up that I did not use when I rebuilt my front end if interested. I too had issues with steering, I replaced all the bushings, added new springs and shocks, it's not sports car accurate, but it's much better.
Tom

 

[Broncobowsher]

Stock pitman arm does NOT sit parallel to the frame
That much slop in the tie rod ends is too much, they are shot. Should only be a couple thousandths of an inch. If you can feel play, it is wore out.

 

[broncoP]

I just replaced my tierod ends and tierod and draglink. Count how many turns your steering box turns, either 6-1 or 4.1-1 if it's stock p/s. Just count how many turns lock to lock and position the pitman arm in the middle. If it's a 4.1-1 box, pitman arm will turn just over 2 revolutions to center , then hook up the draglink.

 

[DuctTape]

Here's what mine looks like stop to stop and centered with W/H quickratio steering box.

The center is off just a tad - i didn't want to file the keys for one notch over.

Oh, and I'm re-using the old adjustable draglink, so I'm not positive the geometry is right. Soon as I can get this damn power brake upgrade working and the rig road ready I'm going to take it to a shop to have all the geometry checked. You might want to do the same - steering geometry confuses the hell out of me and who knows what previous owners have done.

 

[LouB]

I just replaced my tierod ends and tierod and draglink. Count how many turns your steering box turns, either 6-1 or 4.1-1 if it's stock p/s. Just count how many turns lock to lock and position the pitman arm in the middle. If it's a 4.1-1 box, pitman arm will turn just over 2 revolutions to center , then hook up the draglink.

I did the centering count. Mine is just under 3 turns to center. I was concerned that after centering the steering wheel, the pitman arm was not paralell with the frame. Broncobrouser's post says stock position is not paralell.

 

[LouB]

Here's what mine looks like stop to stop and centered with W/H quickratio steering box.

The center is off just a tad - i didn't want to file the keys for one notch over.

Thanks for the pics. The first photo you posted looks to be the same position l have with my steering wheel centered..... I put ball joints and disc breaks on in April and am going with a 2.5 lift while I have everything down; so, a new steering system should just about cover it all. Will go with TRO or stone crusher.
Thanks

 

[bigmuddy]

LouB stick with the TRO using the big chevy ends.

Ben

 

[DirtDonk]

I did the centering count. Mine is just under 3 turns to center. I was concerned that after centering the steering wheel, the pitman arm was not paralell with the frame. Broncobrouser's post says stock position is not paralell.

And he's right Lou. BUT, stock is slightly to the driver's side, if I remember correctly, and your 23° seems a bit excessive anyway. Especially because it's going the other way.
Unless I'm remembering it completely wrong. Somebody can confirm.

Never center the box based on the steering wheel. The wheel could have been changed in the past. Always center the box by counting the turns and then, if the steering wheel is off, pull the wheel and re-install correctly.
Sounds like you've done that already and confirmed, I was just wanting to be clear about the order of importance.
Then too, once the box is centered, you can re-install your pitman arm and it "should" be pointing just slightly to the driver's side. IF it's a factory system.
Is yours a late '72 with factory PS? Or has it been changed out by a PO?

Also, back to your excess play, have you performed the wiggle test to see just what's loose in your whole system? It's worth three minutes lying on your side under the truck. Highlights every weak link in the front end.

Also, when in doubt, "pay the man". The alignment man that is. Have it put up on a rack and get them to print you out the readings on your caster, camber and toe-in.
It'll put you way ahead in the c-bushing guessing game when it comes time for your lift kit. Even without loose components, too little caster makes for a wandering Bronco

Good luck.

Paul

 

[Chief Master Sergeant]

My Chiltons Manual say the caster and camber can't be adjusted on these things...just the toe. That or I read it wrong. Did I miss something? I'm following this closely, as I've developed a slight wandering since my lift install.

 

[bigmuddy]

Castor gets adjusted through the use of different C bushings. Camber can be adjusted by using some aftermarket shims at the spindle or adjustment at the ball joint.

Ben

 

[DirtDonk]

My Chiltons Manual say the caster and camber can't be adjusted on these things...just the toe. That or I read it wrong. Did I miss something? I'm following this closely, as I've developed a slight wandering since my lift install.

As far as the factory was concerned, and when Chilton's originally wrote their book, that was all true.
Now though, like bigmuddy said, there are aftermarket parts to do the job.

Caster is adjusted with either C-bushings, radius arm drop brackets, upper-ball joint eccentrics (see also camber) or actually getting in there and physically changing the axle by rotating the tubes and/or yokes.

Camber can be adjusted by the use of tapered shims between the spindle and the knuckle, or the upper ball-joint eccentrics.
Some shops used to even bend axle tubes to adjust camber. Like they did with the Twin-I Beam axles on 2wd Fords.

You can change other aspects of the steering geometry too (on ball-joint equipped axles) by using knuckles from other vehicles with different length steering arms.

In my opinion the original alignment specs were a bit off by today's standards. I always say to use the absolute minimum reading on camber. So if it recommends a range of +.5° to +1.25° (positive camber), try to keep in in the lower end of that range. Unless you can get more caster adjusted in as well. Having more positive caster can somewhat mitigate the outer edge tire wear.

For caster, in the early manual steering years I think the range was something like +1.75° to +3° (your Chilton's would say), but Broncos rarely had even the minimum from the factory. Add a lift kit and that gets even worse.
That's why I always recommend having your readings taken so you know what to use. If you've got one of the many trucks with insufficient caster right from the factory, it may turn out that with even with a 2.5" lift kit, you'll need 7° c-bushings instead of the usually recommended 2 or 4 degree types.
With my 3.5" lift, the 7° bushings were not enough to even get me much above the minimum caster (on one side) for my year and manual steering, so I bought a set of the ball-joint eccentrics to help a little. One side is still below the minimum recommended caster.

Once you add power steering to the mix, your caster should be more up in the 3 to 5 degree level, as at least a minimum. Later full-size Broncos used up to 6+ degrees caster.


Paul

 

[LouB]

LouB stick with the TRO using the big chevy ends.

Ben

Ben, I just read the B-Fix article and printed the list of parts for the Chev TRO. Looks clean; and I checked out Complete off road's System. They use weld in inserts and will make it up for you or will sell the parts to weld your own for something like 229 dollars. I wouldn't attempt welding my steering; but I have access to friends that are certified welders. I'm close to pulling the pin on this upgrade --- along with the suspension lift.

 

[LouB]

And he's right Lou. BUT, stock is slightly to the driver's side, if I remember correctly, and your 23° seems a bit excessive anyway. Especially because it's going the other way.
Unless I'm remembering it completely wrong. Somebody can confirm.

o

Good luck.

Paul

Paul, With my steering box centered using the process you describe, my pitman arm is in a very similar position to the first pic posted by Ducttape. The hole for the drag link is slightly to the drivers side of the frame so I think I'm OK. Not sure if the truck came with PS because everything has been changed. The PO changed it from stick to automatic and changed the engine; so he may have changed the PS as well.

I drove 100 highway miles last month and although the truck ran great the steering was a strugle; so, having just put in ball joints when I converted to disc breaks, I figure I will take my time while putting in new suspension and
get the steering dialed in.

Thanks Lou

 

[DirtDonk]

Sounds good Lou. You're probably in good shape then. At last good enough to move on to the next part of the project!
Have fun.

Oh, and since the steering is always such an issue when these things get old, you should do the "wiggle-test" that I referred to before.
That's where you have a helper move the steering wheel back and forth just enough to make the tires move a little bit. You don't have to make them move much for this. Just a little will do the job. The tires have to be fully on the ground for this though. So the weight of the vehicle is pushing against the leverage of the steering system.
While they're moving the wheel, you're down underneath watching EVERYTHING move.
If anything moves a little before the tires do, that part is loose and should be looked at more closely.
This is really a great way to see just what the dynamics are in everything from the steering shaft to the frame and from the box to the wheel bearings. And especially the track-bar and it's mounts and bushings!!!! Even when almost new they can move more than they should.

Do the test and you'll see what I mean.

Paul