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New build overheating

nvrstuk

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Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
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All great ideas and thoughts by all.

In order:

1- get the cheap HF temp sensor then you can verify that it's getting hot and WHERE it's reading hot. Top of the radiator should be hotter than the bottom etc.

2- you have to narrow things down before buying parts and I know this is what you're trying to do :)

3- I mentioned airflow before even tho someone said they use that fan successfully. Like Broncobowsher said, we all know that at appr 45 mph that the air being forced thru the radiator from travelling is more cfm than what the engine fan can usually move. This is why you are fine when cruising.

4- We "know" that the engine is cooling ok when cruising at highway speeds correct? If this is true then we almost have to admit that the t-stat is opening, the water pump is pumping correctly (and the right direction), that the hoses don't have air trapped in them and blocking flow, etc, etc.

5- since we are hearing that it is low speed heating issues only (correct us if wrong) then the lack of adequate air flow (edit: also caused by no or inadequate shroud) to cool is the culprit. New engines do generate more heat but it is rare that a stock 302 can't be cooled with a stock mechanical fan even without a shroud when just cruising at 10-25mph. My last stroker (last year) was generating 670deg primary header temps. 500 miles later the exact locations were down at 525F.

Easiest and cheapest fix if there aren't any other issues is to install a stock OE 7 blade mechanical fan with a good fitting stock or aftermarket fan shroud and your cooling problems will go away. There is no comparison in air flow between the OE 7 blade fan and the "looks nice but doesn't flow enough Derale electric fan" you are currently running. This is much easier than upgrading to an Explorer clutch type fan/frt dress.

All signs point to air flow now that you showed us some pics, verified that the wtr pump and radiator are new and shouldn't be plugged or not working. :)

The stock mechanical fan and shroud are VERY cheap compared to going with a newer style fan from late model Mercedes or Camaros that pull enough air to keep an electric fan on your build. The Tauras/Volvo fan works dang good but getting hard to find (unless you buy a new one??) but they pull a lot of amperage and will probably require fabbing a mount for it and new relay to handle the 60amps of draw (or close and that's why the new MB and GM fans are so great). With the correct fan/shroud combo it doesn't matter if you have 2 coolers in front of the radiator (like OE stacks them in), it will pull all the air needed to cool your engine. All the radiator shops say the same thing- properly setup fans/shrouds won't have any issues pulling air thru ac condensors and tranny coolers in front of radiators.

Good luck and report back. Nice Bronco! :)
 
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DirtDonk

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Bronco Guru
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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
51,618
Hey jstek, welcome, and thanks for sharing your and your husband’s story.
Definitely a great looking bronco!

Since it’s overheating at idle, and slower speeds, I would agree that it’s also normally either an airflow or tuning issue. But as we’ve seen many times in the past, cooling Broncos is a pesky undertaking.

Can you tell us what the ignition timing is set to?
Also, what transmission, what size tires, and what gearing?
I see an ARB air compressor, it looks like, so apparently the differentials were gone through at the same time. Hopefully the gear ratios were chosen according to the tire size and transmission type. And engine tuning…
The slow speed trails made me think of gearing.

And while idling is sometimes difficult to cool, both with air and coolant flow, and in spite of what has been said, I also think that the paper on the radiator does indicate that you have at least enough flow to keep a normal engine cool.
It used to be kind of a go to test. Granted, it doesn’t prove everything, but it’s still a basic indicator. Just how hard does the fan pull the paper against the radiator?
I agree more pictures are called for. Thanks very much for becoming a contributor so quickly! We will do our best to keep throwing ideas at you , and keep trying to diagnose the problem with you.

Do you know what camshaft and carburetor were installed? Does the engine run well, as you would expect it to?

Just three or four hundred more questions to throw at you! :)
Welcome to the unpredictable world of older vehicles.
 
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jstek

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May 13, 2021
Messages
25
That's a nice looking bronco.

Lots of non stock parts which is fine but the reason for my question. The coolant temp sensor needs to be in coolant and the right location for it to read accurately. Have you verified the sender location? You may have the sender in a location that isn't properly reading the coolant temp.

A cheap harbour freight IR temp gun ($20?) will give you an idea about temps in different locations. Simple to use, pull the trigger and point the red dot at different locations and and get the readings. Check thermostat housing, upper and lower radiator, etc. Much cheaper than paying a ship and we can help you out with questions.

Like mentioned more pictures of the engine side of the radiator. The more the better. Don't worry about it, we like pictures and you should have noticed plenty of people here willing to help.
Thank you so much. I will try that with temp gun ( I actually have one). I appreciate everyone’s ideas.
 

ba123

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I think WH sells that fan so it can't be that bad.

I'd bet it's something else, like air in the lines giving a hot reading when the coolant isn't or something else...maybe no shroud.

Or what tranny? Maybe at low speed the trans is getting too hot and heating the rad up.

Could be a few things snd +1 on not just buying parts if you don't know. Don't let someone tell you to buy parts unless you know it's likely.

But if you really can't figure anything out and you just have to try something, then also a +1 on trying a stock or Explorer fan as they are inexpensive and work.

The electric DeltaPag fan I have definitely works but it's pricey. Pricey isn't a way to test things out.
 

Timmy390

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I guess I'm just lucky.....I run that fan with no overheating issues.

That fan is a two speed fan.....I would verify it's wired correctly with controller. It should have two settings i.e. temps. One for low speed and one for high. When mine kicks on high speed while sitting in traffic I can see the temps start to drop. My ECM controls my fan.

X whatever on the IR heat laser gun. I have one and use it all the time.

Tim
 

Broncobowsher

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Messages
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For reference, A lot of us have tried electric fans over the years. Generally with poor results. Aftermarket fans are generally the worst resutls, repurposed OEM fans often work but at the expense of additional electrical loads the stock charging system and harness cannot support.

I've tried electric fans twice. But times I thought I could make it work. Both times I was wrong. I never had enough electrical system to support a high power electric fan that could have worked.
 

Soylent

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I noticed a significant drop in temperature just by adding the missing shroud. Stock mechanical fan and radiator.
 

Timmy390

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For reference, A lot of us have tried electric fans over the years. Generally with poor results. Aftermarket fans are generally the worst resutls, repurposed OEM fans often work but at the expense of additional electrical loads the stock charging system and harness cannot support.

I've tried electric fans twice. But times I thought I could make it work. Both times I was wrong. I never had enough electrical system to support a high power electric fan that could have worked.
That's a good point.....I have a 95amp alternator.....

Tim
 

nvrstuk

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Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
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Messages
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That's a good point.....I have a 95amp alternator.....

Tim
Yeah, that's what I mentioned earlier about the Tauras drawing so much amperage!!

Anybody remember my old "Heat Torture Test" btw the Tauras/Volvo fan and the Exploder clutch fan?
Great comparison test.
 
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jstek

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OK, thank you all so much for all the thoughts on this. I really appreciate it. To clarify, it runs just great at normal speeds. At 35-40 mph in stop and go traffic, no problem, 180 degrees. If I just wanted to showboat around town, it would be just great. Sounds great, no stalling, no glugging, no issues. Silly me for wanted to actually offroad in this damn thing! The vast majority of the parts were from Wild Horse or Tom's Bronco Parts, and I know my husband talked to them a fair bit about the build. But that was almost 10 years ago, and also the first time he had done anything like this. I can't say the build was perfect. It went through many hands in trying to get it done (long story, many issues), but the mechanic who finally finished it did several test runs doing city driving and highway driving. All good. I drove it home on the highway, no problem (other than it being squirrely AF). I only realized the overheating when I went out on the dirt roads. I could obviously take it back to the mechanic for more testing, but I don't know if I can stand the hour plus drive on the super busy 90 mph highway to get there. Plus, I really need to take ownership of this and find a local mechanic to work with. I will do some more testing and take more pics over the weekend. Thank you all!
 

Broncobowsher

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If you spray down the radiator with water when it starts running hot and it cools off, another confirmation of an airflow issue. Your are replacing the cooling air with cooling water.

Years ago I was helping out on a TV shoot of an off-road built rig. I kept a gatorade bottle with a couple holes in the lid to hose down the trans cooler that lacked airflow. Watered it down between shots. Water does a great job of cooling when airflow is lacking.
 
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jstek

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Ok, here is a bunch of photos. I did another idle test today. Fan came on at around 165-170. Tried the paper test again and it stuck on the grill quite well. Temp was at 220 after 15 minutes. Tried the temp gun and the hose going into the radiator read 182 and the hose going out of the radiator read 175. You would have to tell me where anything else is to have me point the gun at it 😬. The outside temp was only about 40. It got up to 232 by 20ish minutes and I stopped the engine then. Not sure if you can see it by the battery, but there is a high and low setting for the fan. That’s what I’ve got for today! Does any of this mean anything??
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Wild horse 75

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You should find a better place for that sender. Where it is right now it won’t read until the thermostat opens. the best place to get an idea of the water temperature is right on the thermostat housing or manifold right there. That will give you a better idea of the water temperature. Also that loop on the upper hose is going to trap a lot of air. Also there shouldn’t be a gap between the fan and radiator. With everything behind the fan it’s going to cause air to recirculate. You might be best served to go back to a mechanical fan and shroud.
 
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jstek

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I also hear everyone's concern about airflow. That does seem right (despite paper test, I guess). I admit to being fundamentally clueless about amps, alternators, charging systems, and what that means for fans. This has a new electrical harness, if that matters. How would I know if it has the capacity to handle a higher power electrical fan? I do see that Wild Horses has a couple of aluminum fan shrouds as well, which seems like a potentially easy first step? And, honestly, at this point, I'm not that concerned about what it costs. If the fix is some stupid expensive fan, OK.
 
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jstek

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You should find a better place for that sender. Where it is right now it won’t read until the thermostat opens. the best place to get an idea of the water temperature is right on the thermostat housing or manifold right there. That will give you a better idea of the water temperature. Also that loop on the upper hose is going to trap a lot of air. Also there shouldn’t be a gap between the fan and radiator. With everything behind the fan it’s going to cause air to recirculate. You might be best served to go back to a mechanical fan and shroud.
Thank you, good info!
 

Wild horse 75

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Electric fans draw a decent amount of amperage. You should have at bare minimum a 120A alternator. A 150A would be better. But wire gauge can help a smaller alternator keep up. Too small of a wire will restrict how much amperage makes it to the system. A 150A alternator will want a 6ga charge wire. The fan should also have a circuit breaker not a fuse for protection and be running 10ga wire.
 
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jstek

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I also just educated myself (thank you, google) on electrical vs mechanical fans. Definitely I should go to a mechanical fan! Horsepower is 100% not a concern of mine.
 

ba123

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Ok, here is a bunch of photos. I did another idle test today. Fan came on at around 165-170. Tried the paper test again and it stuck on the grill quite well. Temp was at 220 after 15 minutes. Tried the temp gun and the hose going into the radiator read 182 and the hose going out of the radiator read 175. You would have to tell me where anything else is to have me point the gun at it 😬. The outside temp was only about 40. It got up to 232 by 20ish minutes and I stopped the engine then. Not sure if you can see it by the battery, but there is a high and low setting for the fan. That’s what I’ve got for today! Does any of this mean anything??
View attachment 920802
That shroud is far from ideal. Even if the fan is good, it's only gonna pull air from that smaller area. The other one WH has with the shroud is waht I thought you had. You need a shroud that pull from the whole area. Like this one:

https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Aluminum_Shrouded_Hi-Output_Radiator_Fan/Bronco_Cooling_Fans

Don't go buying another fan though. You need to find a shroud that fits or have someone make one. I don't think Derale sells that one alone.

I found one that was pretty good and customized it. It did not use 100% of the rad area but was close enough.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2553061099...d=link&campid=5335857059&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

But if you can get one made it would be better esp since you know it's getting hot.
 
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