Help diagnose engine ticking sound - Rebuilt 351W with 4R70W

[ba123]

Agree that there were some exhaust tick sound similarities and it could be that as well.

 

[ntsqd]

FWIW in a pinch a really long screw-driver or a simple piece of rod can stand-in for a stethoscope. Place one end (handle in the case of the screw-driver) in the middle of your ear and the other end on the places mentioned. The stethoscope has better audio, but the screw-driver or rod will get you 80%+ the way there.

****If you use a piece of rod put a thumb between your ear that the end of the rod. This will protect your ear. I do this even with the screw-driver.

****When using any of these be hyper-conscious of where they are relative to the spinning fan and belt(s).

 

[davisjstone]

I just picked up a mechanics stethoscope and plan to poke around tomorrow and see if I can narrow it down. I’ll report back on what I find. Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

 

[badandy73]

The injectors on the sniper are very loud, at least the first gen units, sounds similar to when I was running one previously- very loud clicking. Something to check, although it could just be adding to the noise.

 

[ba123]

Any update?

 

[davisjstone]

Any update?

Making some slow progress. I’ll give the full rundown…

I was watching oil pressure closely and noticed the needle began fluttering/jumping pretty good. It was constantly and rapidly “fluttering” between 50-60 PSI. Cant remember if its always been like that or was a new symptom. After some research I learned this is not how the oil pressure gauge should be reading, the internet suggested it might be a big issue. I decided to get another gauge to rule that out.

Installed a new gauge, but I kept the original hose because I figured why mess with changing that out. Fired it up and the pressure was not fluttering at first, but after a minute or two it started again (with the new gauge) but it was not fluttering quite as bad (55-60 psi). Seemed promising. Gave it a few revs, and boom, oil went shooting everywhere …huge mess. I shut it down instantly and realized the oil pressure hose broke at the barbed fitting which shot 60 psi of oil everywhere. This was a cheap amazon gauge. I swapped to my new hose/gauge, and sure enough, constant 60 psi, no bouncing or fluttering. My guess is the hose was bad and on its way out the entire time.

Back to the noise diagnosis. Got a mechanical stethoscope, pretty handy little tool. No loud ticking or unusual noises in valve covers, pan, or heads. Could not replicate the sound…

Then I ran through the gears while parked and there it was. In park, its quiet, but once I shift to drive or any gear, the tick started. Back to park and mostly quiet. I jumped underneath and it certainly seems to be coming from the trans/flexplate area. Seems like something is hitting the separator plate based on the stethoscope.

Ran out of time and was not able to check flexplate nuts yet, but I don’t think those are going to be loose.

When put in gear, does the TC move forward or apply more pressure that would make sense of this?

It’s almost like the separator plate is bent inward and causing interference when in gear. Might try to bend it outward a tad or lightly push down when running to see if the noise gets worse. A friend (mechanic by trade) put the trans in for me, but thats not to say it was done correctly.

My remainig step is check the TC nuts. Any ideas past this?

 

[ba123]

Well, it is possible and that's what I heard and I knew the sound because I had just heard it myself.

I don't love the separator plate I have, I wish I had changed it when I just had my trans out but it had never been a problem--I just didn't love it. But, this time, my TC bolts did rub one spot on the inspection plate cover.

Yes, you can bend it if you can figure out where it's rubbing. You can stick a long pry bar in there and gently push it away but do be careful what you're leveraging against.

Also yes, the TC will move a little. That is normal.

If you plan to have your trans back out at any point, you could shorten the TC studs or find another separator plate, but I guess the plate might not even be an issue--and my own issue might be the length of the bolts sticking out of my TC (in my own case).

Hope that all helps, and hope that really is all it is.

 

[davisjstone]

@ba123 This is the separator plate I used. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-700602

 

[ba123]

Well, crap, different source but that looks like the exact one I have and I bet that is the problem.

Mine:
https://www.cjponyparts.com/bellhousing-separator-plate-mustang/p/TSP12/

When tightening the engine and trans together. It seems to push in a little.

Just bend it like I said and you’ll be fine. Use a pry bar on each side to gently push it away on each side at the level of the TC bolts.

 

[davisjstone]

Well, crap, different source but that looks like the exact one I have and I bet that is the problem.

Mine:
https://www.cjponyparts.com/bellhousing-separator-plate-mustang/p/TSP12/

When tightening the engine and trans together. It seems to push in a little.

Just bend it like I said and you’ll be fine. Use a pry bar on each side to gently push it away on each side at the level of the TC bolts.

yeah that sure looks like the same plate. Will do. You had the same issue and that was the fix?

 

[ba123]

Yes

 

[DirtDonk]

Another thing, just a rule out. Do any of your plug wires come close to the shift linkage on the column? Or do you have a Floor shift?
Reason I’m asking is because if the shift lever is moving one of the plug wires and then you hear the ticking, you could have a loose spark plug.
I thought I had a bearing going out in my transmission once, but it kept coming and going as I shifted. Turns out the number eight spark plug was just loose enough to let compression escape when it was pushed at a certain angle.

Yes, different transmission, different engine, and maybe completely different scenario. It’s probably your cover like you two have been talking about. But it wouldn’t hurt to eliminate the simplest stuff first.
And while you’re fiddling with the spark plugs to make sure they’re tight, make sure the header/manifold bolts are tight too.
And that’s my random two cents worth comment on a Monday night.

 

[davisjstone]

Another thing, just a rule out. Do any of your plug wires come close to the shift linkage on the column? Or do you have a Floor shift?
Reason I’m asking is because if the shift lever is moving one of the plug wires and then you hear the ticking, you could have a loose spark plug.
I thought I had a bearing going out in my transmission once, but it kept coming and going as I shifted. Turns out the number eight spark plug was just loose enough to let compression escape when it was pushed at a certain angle.

Yes, different transmission, different engine, and maybe completely different scenario. It’s probably your cover like you two have been talking about. But it wouldn’t hurt to eliminate the simplest stuff first.
And while you’re fiddling with the spark plugs to make sure they’re tight, make sure the header/manifold bolts are tight too.
And that’s my random two cents worth comment on a Monday night.

Good ideas @DirtDonk. It is a column shit with linkage, so I'll double check those and the header bolts.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Well, crap, different source but that looks like the exact one I have and I bet that is the problem.

Mine:
https://www.cjponyparts.com/bellhousing-separator-plate-mustang/p/TSP12/

When tightening the engine and trans together. It seems to push in a little.

Just bend it like I said and you’ll be fine. Use a pry bar on each side to gently push it away on each side at the level of the TC bolts.

Block plate flexes when you tighten the trans to the engine, or the flexplate flexes when you tighten them?
With the engine and trans bolted together the torque convertor should be slightly loose before you tighten the convertor nuts. If the convertor is tight to the flexplate (without nuts) you have the wrong flexplate. the C6/E4OD flexplate will bottom out the convertor

 

[ba123]

Block plate flexes when you tighten the trans to the engine, or the flexplate flexes when you tighten them?
With the engine and trans bolted together the torque convertor should be slightly loose before you tighten the convertor nuts. If the convertor is tight to the flexplate (without nuts) you have the wrong flexplate. the C6/E4OD flexplate will bottom out the convertor

Don't remember saying anything about the flexplate.

Talking about the separator plate. If I said flexplate, I misspoke.

 

[ntsqd]

I have seen block plates that were warped a little and would flatten out as the bell-housing bolts pulled up tight.

Just to be clear for future readers: if the converter is tight to, or bowing the flex-plate when the bell-housing bolts are tight but the converter bolts or nuts are loose, that usually wipes out the front pump in the trans. Should be a little gap between the flex-plate and the converter before it's bolts or nuts are tightened and tightening them should pull the converter forwards just that little bit.

 

[73azbronco]

Making some slow progress. I’ll give the full rundown…

I was watching oil pressure closely and noticed the needle began fluttering/jumping pretty good. It was constantly and rapidly “fluttering” between 50-60 PSI. Cant remember if its always been like that or was a new symptom. After some research I learned this is not how the oil pressure gauge should be reading, the internet suggested it might be a big issue. I decided to get another gauge to rule that out.

Installed a new gauge, but I kept the original hose because I figured why mess with changing that out. Fired it up and the pressure was not fluttering at first, but after a minute or two it started again (with the new gauge) but it was not fluttering quite as bad (55-60 psi). Seemed promising. Gave it a few revs, and boom, oil went shooting everywhere …huge mess. I shut it down instantly and realized the oil pressure hose broke at the barbed fitting which shot 60 psi of oil everywhere. This was a cheap amazon gauge. I swapped to my new hose/gauge, and sure enough, constant 60 psi, no bouncing or fluttering. My guess is the hose was bad and on its way out the entire time.

Back to the noise diagnosis. Got a mechanical stethoscope, pretty handy little tool. No loud ticking or unusual noises in valve covers, pan, or heads. Could not replicate the sound…

Then I ran through the gears while parked and there it was. In park, its quiet, but once I shift to drive or any gear, the tick started. Back to park and mostly quiet. I jumped underneath and it certainly seems to be coming from the trans/flexplate area. Seems like something is hitting the separator plate based on the stethoscope.

Ran out of time and was not able to check flexplate nuts yet, but I don’t think those are going to be loose.

When put in gear, does the TC move forward or apply more pressure that would make sense of this?

It’s almost like the separator plate is bent inward and causing interference when in gear. Might try to bend it outward a tad or lightly push down when running to see if the noise gets worse. A friend (mechanic by trade) put the trans in for me, but thats not to say it was done correctly.

My remainig step is check the TC nuts. Any ideas past this?

yes, tighten the TC bolts!

 

[Broncobowsher]

Don't remember saying anything about the flexplate.

Talking about the separator plate. If I said flexplate, I misspoke.

There was discussion about the torque convertor moving slightly when put into gear and it being normal. That is where I was unclear about which plate was flexing. Depending on how you read what is going on.

 

[davisjstone]

There was discussion about the torque convertor moving slightly when put into gear and it being normal. That is where I was unclear about which plate was flexing. Depending on how you read what is going on.

What seems to be happening is in drive there is no noise. When put it into gear, there’s a ticking which seems to be coming from the TC bolts/nuts rubbing against the separator plate. I was asking if placing it into gear moves the TC slightly which would then move the flexplate ever so slightly to create the interference with the separator plate while in gear. Hope that makes sense. Really not wanting to pull the trans.

 

[SLOWnEASY]

If it was mine I would crawl under and loosen all torque converter bolts. Loosen them all until only about one thread is still holding them on. Then try to push the torque converter back away from the flex plate. If you can push the torque converter back you're probably good. It means you're not putting pressure on the front pump of the transmission.
Now tighten all the bolts back up. Spray each bolt liberally with black spray paint and let it dry. Then go reproduce the tick. If the bolts are causing the tick you will see some shiny marks on the heads.