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More efficient starting method than solenoid?

John_parkeriv

Jr. Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Messages
203
Loc.
Arcadia, FL
Hey y'all,

My 66 tends to spend most of its life outside, and as a result my old school Ford solenoids last about 3 months a piece. I'm tired of replacing them (stealing them off my other fords :ROFLMAO:), so I'm looking for a different method to power the starter. Something more like a relay.

Any links to existing threads, guides, or just past experience would be apprecitated.
Thanks,
Parker
 

Oldtimer

Contributor
Jr. Member with Sr. moments
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Feb 4, 2005
Messages
1,096
Loc.
Sunnyvale, CA
This Ford starter never had a problem with relay failure 🤣.

1731518561891.png
 

Oldtimer

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Jr. Member with Sr. moments
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
1,096
Loc.
Sunnyvale, CA
Hey y'all,

My 66 tends to spend most of its life outside, and as a result my old school Ford solenoids last about 3 months a piece. I'm tired of replacing them (stealing them off my other fords :ROFLMAO:), so I'm looking for a different method to power the starter. Something more like a relay.

Any links to existing threads, guides, or just past experience would be apprecitated.
Thanks,
Parker
To get this derailed train back on the tracks,

1731529546349.png

The original Ford starter relay is pretty robust, and my Bronco has sat outside for decades with no starter relay issues.

The new style 4 terminal relay may be more reliable?
ACDELCO F3914
1731530685857.png
 

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Timmy390

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Jan 1, 2011
Messages
5,695
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Conway, AR
Hey y'all,

My 66 tends to spend most of its life outside, and as a result my old school Ford solenoids last about 3 months a piece. I'm tired of replacing them (stealing them off my other fords :ROFLMAO:), so I'm looking for a different method to power the starter. Something more like a relay.

Any links to existing threads, guides, or just past experience would be apprecitated.
Thanks,
Parker
Hummmm something odd is going on. Something is killing your solenoids and I don't think it's the sitting outside.

Mine has been on the truck for many many years now and it's never inside. THINK it was a duralast "gold". I know I bought it local for sure.

Have you taken a "dead" one apart and looked to see what the issue was? It's just a big relay........should be able to see if the contacts are burned or what-not.....

Tim
 

Tricky Dick

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Sr. Member
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Jul 13, 2023
Messages
477
I made the mistake of buying the cheapest one once. It died quickly. The "premium" version was about double the price but it lived as long as I had that rig.
 

ared77

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Bronco Guru
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Apr 21, 2013
Messages
2,939
John, as others have said it may be something else. The old Ford ones are pretty reliable, any made in last X? number of years are probably junk, made in China, and are famous for not lasting long at all. Multiple threads on here and many other (Mustang for example) sites as well about them failing. Sometimes staying engaged even after you let off the key, causing a mad rush out to open hood and smack it with something before you burn up starter or wiring! :oops:
 

Johnnyb

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Nov 19, 2001
Messages
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Loc.
Flagstaff
I #XX the sentiment that Ford starter relays are known to be reliable components. It's just about the only part that I didn't change when I put in a new motor and EFI, it might be OEM to the vehicle from 71.
There are many heavy duty 12V relays (solenoids) available which could be used for the starter, just search Amazon as a starting point.

-JB
 

Steve83

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
9,090
Loc.
Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way
The original starter has no solenoid (the small cylinder on the side of a modern PMGR starter); it only has the relay on the inner fender near the battery. The original design with the heavy posts on opposite sides is known to have problems, as this page explains:

(click this text)


Of course, if you buy low-quality parts, they won't last. And I don't think Ford still offers that design. The later design (still a relay) is significantly better.

(click this text)


It is still available in Ford packaging, though perhaps NOT with the 4th (I) terminal.

(click this text)


If you need but can't find the version with an I terminal, you can simply add another small relay to provide that function.
 

DirtDonk

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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,743
My 66 tends to spend most of its life outside, and as a result my old school Ford solenoids last about 3 months a piece.
Like the others have said, it's not that it's sitting outside. Lots of ours do, and all the perfectly good starter relays we've gotten out of the junkyards (and that have worked for years after) have certainly spent a good deal of their later lives outdoors. To say the least! Probably with hoods open half the time.

Is your '66 a V8, or I-6? If it's in the original location, on the inner wheel well panel, facing the exhaust manifold on a V8, then the first thing I would do while replacing this latest one would be to relocate it to the front panel of the wheel well. Just a few inches from it's current home, like Ford did it after about '68 or so.

What brands and model numbers of relay are you buying?
I'm tired of replacing them (stealing them off my other fords :ROFLMAO:),
Are the ones you're using also replacements? Or are they originals that you're robbing off of older rigs? Reason I ask is that many of the replacements for the past 20 years or more, have been a total crap shoot.
so I'm looking for a different method to power the starter. Something more like a relay.
Just to clear this up, the device mounted to the body IS a relay. It's not a solenoid and was never called out as such by Ford in any of their manuals. However, over the years the aftermarket and even Motorcraft have gotten used to people calling them out as a solenoid, so sometimes you even see that printed on the box labels. Along with one or two other words like "switch" and "contactor" and even "contacteur" (for Citroens maybe? :rolleyes: ) and such.
But it's a relay nonetheless...

There are certainly other types by size and shape, that do the same thing. But the big difference is quality. Cheap still gives you cheap. Paying more is not a guarantee of course, but it gives you a better chance of getting one that will last.
I'm a fan of the "pancake" style that was posted up by others. Same concept, just used in newer Fords starting in the '80's sometime I think. Still does the same thing though.

And though I'm sure you've probably checked into things, just what are they doing when they fail? Simply no more clicking even with a good battery? When you find out one is bad, are you also checking for voltage on the small Red w/blue wire and it's 90 degree connector? Those are notorious too, for getting old and loose. Maybe when you have one fail, it's not helping that the fitting is loose. Then when you mess with it by putting in a new relay, you're making them have better contact and they work for awhile. Until the connection gets loose again.
Might not be your issue, but at this stage it's certainly worth looking into. Since not too many people have your issue with sitting outside causing the trouble. It's almost always the cheap replacement parts that cause repeated failures.
The lifetime warranties on some of the cheaper ones seem like a good thing. But you end up using the warranty WAY more than you'd like!

Good luck no matter which way you go.
Now I'm going to google the party duffymahoney mentioned to see what comes up.:)

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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And, as always, I'm going to click on Steve83's links to see what new info I can glean from that extensive library!

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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I switched to a bosch style relay a few years ago. It has worked flawlessly since. If you google it for a 5.0, it will come up.
Got a link? Or a part number? Or even a picture of yours?
As expected, looking for "bosch relay" even when you add the 5.0 the only ones that come up are the standard cube relays rated at 30 to 60 amps or so. A few of the general relays show up too, but even those are under-rated to be a starter relay.
Did you just get a Bosch brand replacement Ford starter relay? Probably a better quality to start with, I would think, if they're putting their name on it.

Thanks

Paul
 

EPB72

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Jul 13, 2019
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Pleasant Hill, CA
You can still get a motorcraft relay from ford or other suppliers that sell them,, the relay in pic the mounting bracket has part #D2AF-11450-AA , thought was interesting. The box and part # pictured .. FWIW the other newer style relay I have seen quite a few of them bad as well, better or worse IDK,
 

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bmc69

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Jun 11, 2004
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Hey y'all,

My 66 tends to spend most of its life outside, and as a result my old school Ford solenoids last about 3 months a piece. I'm tired of replacing them (stealing them off my other fords :ROFLMAO:), so I'm looking for a different method to power the starter. Something more like a relay.

Any links to existing threads, guides, or just past experience would be apprecitated.
Thanks,
Parker
My Ford solenoids (30 trucks and cars....a dozen boats..55 years and counting...) last for about ever.
 

Steve83

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Jul 16, 2003
Messages
9,090
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Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way
I switched to a bosch style relay a few years ago.
A Bosch/Tyco/ISO cube relay rated for 30A can't operate a starter that draws a nominal 140A. Post pics showing the relay you're using & how exactly it's wired in.
You can still get a motorcraft relay...
Good to know, but it's still a flawed design because tightening the main lugs causes the internal contacts to mis-align.
 

thegreatjustino

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Stockton, CA
There was a conversation about this on a Mustang page I belong to earlier this year. This one below came highly recommended.
 

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jamesroney

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Sep 11, 2007
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Fremont, CA
There was a conversation about this on a Mustang page I belong to earlier this year. This one below came highly recommended.
The Cole-Hersee 24059-bx is in fact a GREAT relay. But beware, the small terminals do not do what you think they do. There is no "I" terminal, as the terminals are isolated, and one needs to be grounded to energize the solenoid coil.

There are a couple of Ford relays that also work that way. It make it easier to install a clutch safety switch into the crank circuit.

The best thing about that Cole-Hersee relay is that it is rated for continuous duty. So you can use it on things that need to stay on for a long time. The starter motor relays from Ford are intermittent duty, and they are horrid if you energize them for too long of a duration. This is part of the reason why they fail so often in Winch service.

Hey y'all,

My 66 tends to spend most of its life outside, and as a result my old school Ford solenoids last about 3 months a piece. I'm tired of replacing them (stealing them off my other fords :ROFLMAO:), so I'm looking for a different method to power the starter. Something more like a relay.

Any links to existing threads, guides, or just past experience would be apprecitated.
Thanks,
Parker

Get a starter from a 1996 Bronco with a 5.0 and a 5 speed. It will have the solenoid relay integrated into the starter motor.
 
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