BP 347 has left the chat

[Jakedog]

All these man hours and shipping costs. What would it have cost them to ship out a new motor from the beginning? They’ll write it off anyway.

 

[steelworker77]

I am still going with the idea that they make it hard enough for people to jump through all the hoops that they just give up and buy another motor. Believe me I was really close. I have been waiting on a call for them to try and find something to blame it on me. Guess we'll see. We missed all our trips with the bronco we had planned so I figured screw It I will wait it out and just keep spreading the word. I would have thought they would have jumped on it when they got it back and not just tossed it to the side but guess not. There thought process is baffling to me at this point.

 

[Mountaineer1]

This really doesnt give me the warm fuzzies at all. sheesh.

 

[dmoses42]

I would have thought they would have jumped on it when they got it back and not just tossed it to the side

As much grief as they have given you, maybe there is a whole line of "misfit toys" in front of yours...

 

[steelworker77]

Another update:

Got a call yesterday that the motor was inspected. Stated there was an issue with the intake manifold gasket/alignment which was pretty obvious. I asked what caused the valve train failure and he had admitted they had an issue with there supplier who makes there roller rockers right around the timeframe my motor was manufactured. I was told the motor was going to be rebuilt from the ground up with all new parts after being torn down/cleaned. Sounded like the only thing being reused was the block itself. Said to expect 3-4 weeks before it would be ready to ship out. So obviously not excited at all about the additional time as It will be around the 12-14 weeks from when this all started but at least its getting fixed. I was honestly expected a phone call that was going to somehow deny the warranty claim. Will update again when I receive the motor back.

 

[fordguy]

Seems you would take care of existing customers immediately. Glad they are rebuilding it, but I don’t see any other upside to this saga.

 

[steelworker77]

Well as of yesterday there is a motor back in my garage. Only 12 weeks since this all started. With any luck if i can get some free time this week by end of day Saturday it will be back on the road.

Looks like everything was replaced with exception to the intake and block. The block was cleaned and repainted. Even new heads. With it being ran at there facility in the last week on the dyno is it worth pulling the distributor and priming it again?

 

[Teal68]

I wouldn't bother priming it. Vehicles have sat much longer than that without priming. Still, I imagine no harm in turning it over for a bit without spark.

Keep us posted. Glad you finally got it back.

 

[.94 OR]

I would likely just turn it over with no spark as well.
Whether you wanted to pull the valve covers to inspect for oil distribution at the top of the valve train before firing would be up to you.

 

[SLOWnEASY]

Maybe call that guy Ken that you posted you had some luck with and ask him if the engine was run and then just crated up and shipped. Or if anything was disassembled that would require you to prime the oil pump first.

 

[nvrstuk]

Also sorry dont list my location as I had an experience selling some stuff where they were able to figure out where I lived and a group of them decided to pay me a visit in the middle of the night.... crazy

What’s your opinion on one of the Ford factory crate motors versus a good machine shop?

NNNNnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!! I just saw this thread and had Ford Performance F me over for 10 months!!

 

[nvrstuk]

JUST read this entire screw up. What a DISASTER for you. Steve (Yeller) mentioned back in July or somewhere to DON"T ASK NVRSTUK (about Ford Performance)... ha! he's right.

These guys want your life ruined and hope you'll give up. I should have just bought new pistons for Ford Performances screw up 10 months b4 they sent me new ones as I missed 3 annual Bronco events that we normaly go to and life in general was hell for 10 months fighting them over and over and over!

Glad you got something out of it and really sorry you had to go thru all this as I totally UNDERSTAND what you went thru. Read my thread on it if you want to hear someone else's sad story!

Hope everything works out.

 

[Wallajw]

NO!

Do not pull anything, and do not prime anything. I said this at the beginning. You paid full price, you can expect full service.

Engine oil priming is the absolute dumbest idea perpetuated on the auto enthusiast community. Is it good? MAYBE. Is it necessary? NO. Does it actually have any demonstrated benefit whatsoever? NO!

Engine oil priming became a "thing" during the Comp Cams "Not my fault" era. There was a period of time, shortly after the introduction of the API SM implementation in 2004 where the aftermarket camshaft suppliers experienced catastrophic camshaft failure. The SM designation reduced critical wear and extreme pressure characteristics for a theoretical improvement in catalytic converter lifespan. MANY other camshafts failed, but most other makers were able to successfully deflect responsibility with the "not my fault" warranty. Vast numbers of factory camshafts, performance camshafts, and aftermarket cams failed...but no one was as bad as Comp Cams. This led to the requisite blame sharing, and subsequent disclosure of the OEM supply chain...since some of the well known brands were ALSO sourcing from Comp. The net result of this disaster was two fold. First was the adoption of ZDDP into popular culture. Prior to 2004, nobody ever heard of Zinc, or ZDDP. Second was the adoption of "break in" procedure, break in oil, break in springs, cam assembly lube, and of course, OIL PUMP PRIMING. During the early 2000's, the world knew something was wrong, but no one knew what EXACTLY was wrong. But everybody knew if you ran the old cans of motor oil that your dad kept in a case in the shed from the 1960's there was never a problem. Which led to the great race to add too much Zinc in your oil. The API is a corrupt, illegal, monopolistic criminal enterprise that conspires between the government and the petroleum companies to collaborate and avoid competition. They have never, not once, done anything to represent you as a consumer. They are the true embodiment of evil. A ghoul, zombie, or vampire. A life without a soul, answerable to no one. Yet they have incredible clout, and respect...because they claim to be the good guys. (and of course they are nice people that sponsor nice youtube videos...) The good news is that all of the "infidels" from the old school knew that diesel truck oil was "the good stuff." So they recommended diesel oil, or racing oil for your flat tappet cam. That worked until 2020 when the CK diesel spec was released. And now the CL stuff starting in January 2027 is also junk. The only motor oil that meets the needs of your flat tappet engine is the CJ or CK in 15W-40. ANY other viscosity is corrupted. You will have to run racing oil.

Every single engine built by every manufacturer is started up without priming. Every single engine on every assembly line comes with the distributor installed, the oil pump drive installed. The Ford Coyote, LS, and Cummins has the oil pump driven by a chain or gear. You can't even prime those.

I have witnessed auto production lines, and I have never seen anyone removing parts so that they can spin an oil pump. It doesn't happen, it shouldn't happen, in many cases it can't happen, and no...with your roller 347, you should not be doing it for any reason whatsoever, ever.

That's my $.02.

you do know you can use an external pressure tank with oil in it and force oil through the engine to prime engines like an LS or coyote that use a crank driven oil pump. i work for a Cat dealer and we prime every engine we rebuild before it starts with an external pressure fed oil system straight into an oil gallery, we also have engines with external priming pumps on them they will not allow the engine to start until it builds a couple pounds of oil pressure, i have seen many Cummins engines setup this samne way, in this situation if the engine ran previously and fairly recently i would not worry about it but on a fresh build there is no reason not to do it. fill the oil galleries with oil and make sure there is no obstructions anywhere in the system and figure it out before the engine is running and you can identify a leak or have an engine failure. i really hope nobody takes your advise, a few minutes can save a lot of money

ill add this edit also, you don't have to always use a priming tool to pre lube the engine although i would, but in this situation if you disable injection or ignition and spin then engine without combustion until it builds oil pressure, without combustion you don't have the pressure on the bearings that you would would with the engine running and there is an oil film at pressure present.

 

[nvrstuk]

I was pre- priming engines back in the '70's.

I'm with Wallajw...

Still do it today & will never stop doing it. It's what I do & to this day still believe that any time you can start moving two metal parts together with a film of oil between them will ALWAYS be better than to start moving those multiple dry metal to metal parts together WITHOUT a film of oil between them. Physics and lots of metallurgy testing...

I'm with about API tho...

 

[Wallajw]

im not going to turn someone else's post in a different direction or argue with someone on the internet we all know how that goes but @jamesroney you're already contradicting your original statement The Ford Coyote, LS, and Cummins has the oil pump driven by a chain or gear. You can't even prime those. you can 100% prime those if you want to and you mentioned it in your response, im not sure why you brought up prelubing after an oil change nobody is suggesting that ,i said since it had ran recently there is no reason to do it but on a fresh build there is no reason not to do it. stop using AI and fancy words to convince people you're a subject matter expert on something you're not. you're the problem with the internet, all he wanted to know was if he should prime the engine again and went on an unnecessary rant with misinformation that nobody asked for.

 

[nvrstuk]

Yeah, I don't want to argue either, but I will put this out there....

... 900 million passenger car oil changes has nothing to do with pre-lubing a brand new engine that has not been run...


Your quote" There were 900 MILLION passenger car oil changes performed last year. 380 MILLION at professional shops. Exactly ZERO got pre-oiled."

Therefore, I stand by my statement that two dry pieces of metal (no oil film) that are touching/rubbing/spinning against each other are going to wear more than two pieces of metal that have an oil film in between them on an initial startup...

 

[Broncobowsher]

I look at it this way. The engine has run long enough for BP to have made dyno pulls. At this point it is no different than starting an engine that sat in the garage for 2 weeks. Doesn't need the prime of a first start of a freshly assembled engine. The distributor is set, so long as you don't pull it to get the engine installed, its ready to go. The less you mess with, the less there is a chance of an issue. For an engine that has already ran, there is oil pressure in the whole engine before the starter bendix spins down. Non-pressurized oil film is pretty amazing. How many lawnmower engine run for years with nothing more than a little oil splashed around. 2-stroke engines run with nothing more than a little oil mixed with the gas. Most are roller bearings, so more tolerant. But there have been plane bearing 2-stroke engines that are lubed with nothing more than a little oil mixed in with the gas flowing through the crankcase.

I do recall reading about old radial engines (think WWII stuff). If the engine sits for more than 2 months they are to be primed with warm oil. But those engines had weird oiling systems. The dry sump tank had a baffle that the returned oil went straight through the center. So when the oil was cold the hot oil returning from the engine would pass straight through so the engine would warm up faster. Once the oil got heat in it that would mix with the thick cold oil and start utilizing the whole quantity of oil in the dry sump. A no moving parts thermostat for the oil. Another oddity was to intentionally thin the oil with gasoline at shutdown. There was a oil dilution valve for shut down. Used in cold climates where the engine will next be started in cold weather. The idea was to thin the oil so it would flow better on a cold start. As the oil warmed up the gasoline would vaporize off leaving just the heavy weight (but warm and good flowing now) oil. Before the multiweight oils we know of today. I guess it was a multiweight oil, you just had to make it yourself.

 

[nvrstuk]

Out of the 3 choices you have here... #3 isn't relevant unless we're tossing a B&S Engine in the discussion... which we're not.

So, #1 and #2 ...

Your quote:
"The practical question becomes choices between:
A. Two pieces of metal spinning at 200 rpm for 2 minutes. (crank without fire, cam turning 1/2 speed, pump output reduced)
B. Two pieces of metal spinning at 1000 rpm for 2 seconds then fully flooded with a hydrodynamic wedge (fire and forget)"

I'll take # 1 ANY day. The oil pump is pumping oil quickly... I don't know how fast (but it's not 1 or 1 1/2min) but the parts you're trying to say aren't being lubricated with a film of oil because the pumps not spinning at 1,000 rpm isn't accurate- plain and simple. "Output reduced"??? Who cares? 10 #'s of oil pressure is going to lube what needs to be lubed w/o hundreds of pounds of piston/rod/bearing load on the crank... no load, so who needs 50# of pressure at idle to protect it?

B. What new engine not built by professionals or Detroit manufacturing for the past 100 yrs (in other words hot rodders and backyard mechanics) , actually started in 2 seconds...? Go ahead and list a few.

I'd be willing to guess like you're doing, that it's less than 5% start up that quickly? Then when they do start they aren't ing running soothly at 1,000 rpm. lol We've all heard them! Timing's off, carb idle is set too high. Choke?? Didn't hook it up. Pumping the gas pedal to keep it running because the chokes not set... etc, etc.. Probably 1% before EFI came out. Once again for clarity, these are engines that have NOT RUN before.

Your example above is hopelessly predjudiced I feel... (enthusiastically stated in the last 9 words of your statement in "B").

Remember, we're talking about engines here that have NOT been run before. We are waaaay past the OP's situation.

 

[Torkman66]

No desire to walk into a buzz saw here....but i also have a BP 302. The instructions clearly discuss priming the engine before first crank. I too thought, geez, they ran this on a dyno, seems it is no different than my car sitting a month while I'm on vacation. But the point is actually more simple...your motor is still under warranty. Follow their directions. Whether it actually helps or not is beside the point. And although this has been a terrible thing you have gone through, I am very happy to hear you have a newly built motor sitting in your garage. So, fact: they did stand by their warranty even though it caused some gnashing of teeth...you have a fresh motor. Prime it as they suggest, run it 500 miles, change oil, enjoy. That's what i did and so far so good.

And for the record @Wallajw , I see you are new to this forum. @jamesroney has forgotten more about engineering cars, parts, builds, engines, drive trains, etc. than most have ever known in a lifetime. Your comment regarding AI was not accurate and if you knew James, you would know that he is brilliant, needs no help with words (big or small) and if I were building a truck where every part needed to be machined from raw steel, there is one person who would be on that team...yep, James. Not sure your back ground, but please know that James, (although a bit direct and sometimes abrasive is extremely qualified and has zero need for AI...in fact I think Chat GPT asks him questions. So, we accept his commentary with a smile...and a notepad.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Since you are talking OE manufacturing...
30 years ago taking a tour of Caterpillar engine plant. New engines were first bolted to a dyno. Dyno was electric motor. It spun the engine without fuel. The computers watched the torque to turn the engine. In that it could check if it was built right, compression was correct, built oil pressure correctly, etc. Once it was happy, fuel was applied and the motor was now a generator.

Back to the WWII aircraft engines. They would build them, hook them to a dyno, run them several hours, tear them down, inspect everything, put them back together, dyno them again, then ship them for use. Every new aircraft engine in WWI had already been rebuilt once before it left the factory. And dyno proven, twice.