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3G alt. with external regulator?

ntsqd

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I need to go from an internal regulator to an external regulator, not the other way around. Anyone had cause to do this? If so, where did you source the brush holder from? I plan to use a Balmar external regulator.
 

DirtDonk

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I doubt anyone’s ever done it, on purpose.
What’s the reasoning? Just curious.
So you’re not planning to use an externally regulated alternator, but instead, you are converting your existing alternator. Correct?
Sticking with a 3G, but regulating it from outside? Well, you got me. I have no idea how to accomplish that.
 

DirtDonk

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Maybe the Premier Power Welder people know something about that?
Might as well fill us in, before you get too many of the comments of the WTF variety and similar.
 
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ntsqd

ntsqd

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There is a part that I've found, a brush holder that would enable the use of an external regulator, but it doesn't appear to be available.

The idea is to use a much more sophisticated regulator instead of the stock one. Like this one: https://balmar.net/product/ars-5/
I have an Odyssey battery in the truck and it appears to be starting to go much, much earlier than it should be. I've been flirting with the idea of using a more sophisticated, marine type, regulator to see if I can get better battery life from using it instead of the OEM regulators. Which, from what I've seen, aren't terribly smart.
 

DirtDonk

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Very nifty that.
I especially like the delay-start feature.
Maybe it’ll let me keep my large case 105a 1G alternator longer. 😉😁
 

Broncobowsher

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Interesting. It has been too long since I was inside of one. But it should be pretty easy. I don't know if the field is positive or negative controlled.
If it is positive controlled it would just be running a wire around the internal regulator to the outside
Negative control would be a little more thought. Trace where the positive comes from. Then mix and match as needed. One brush to ground, the other to the external regulator.

Reminds me of when I had to use an intrigral TFI distributor housing because it was taller and cleared the fuel rail, but was using a remote TFI. Just ignore there was a TFI on the distributor and pass the wires around it to get what you needed done.
 
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ntsqd

ntsqd

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That particular Balmar model used to be their lowest cost and optioned regulator. Back out of that URL enough to see the others that they make. Some now have an app so you can monitor the charging via bluetooth. Balmar also makes alternators, but none of them are radial/pedestal mount, they're all the pivot bolt/tension bracket type of mount (whatever that is called). Some of them are pretty high output, but all of them are intended for boats so they are not inexpensive. My suspicion is that one of them would probably wear out an engine or two.

Sterling Power also offers similar smart regulators.

Where I got the ARS-5 from: https://shop.pkys.com/Alternator-regulators_c_27.html

It is a temptation to buy a std. regulator and see if it can be modified to be just a brush holder.

The CTD is easy because the PCM already has an integral regulator (that is notorious for failing), but because of that it's an easy swap to a better regulator. Looks like I need to educate myself on terminology used in the alternator trade.

The only 3G brush holder that I've found thus far: https://store.alternatorparts.com/partnof794bnc.aspx He has no stock, and no idea of how much they'll be when he gets them after the first of the year.
 
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ntsqd

ntsqd

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Called my local alternator guru and he said that he has not done this conversion on a 3G, but that it shouldn't be too difficult of a mod to make. The bonus in his eyes is that the brush holder/regulator assembly can be removed from the alternator while it is in place.
 
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ntsqd

ntsqd

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Yes, it is that page the lists, but doesn't have the part that I'm looking for.
 

73azbronco

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I guess you want a more stable power supply? I would bet a DC to DC charger could do it easier, and give you better power control.
 
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ntsqd

ntsqd

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What I want is a regulator that treats the battery nicely instead of one that is designed to maintain a specific system voltage. The current regulator has beat up an Odyssey that is starting to fail at only 3 years or so. It might be easier to implement a DC-DC charger, but the charge rates for those worth buying aren't particularly high. This is the best that I've seen, 50A, in a quality DC-DC converter: https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-xs-12-12-50a-dc-dc-battery-charger but the alternator is a 130A, so I'd expect the recharge times to lengthen considerably compared to what I'm used to. And, I already own an ARS-5 regulator. If the EFI proves to not work well with a subtly changing voltage then I'll put IT on a DC-DC converter.
 
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ntsqd

ntsqd

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Occurs to me that a potentially fatal flaw in the DC-DC convert/charger method is if there is a winch present. Which there is in this case.
 

73azbronco

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so if you use a dc to dc, you wire all the sensitive stuff through the dc/dc, not a winch or starter, etc.

I would always run alt into battery, and I'm pretty sure the alt is not hurting the battery, some other factor exists like how long it sits between drives.
 
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ntsqd

ntsqd

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It did sit undriven for a while while I was working on the whole big brakes & axle swap, but it sat disconnected with a battery tender on it. It is now a DD. Factor in that reportedly Odysseys have a slightly different ideal charge profile than a typical SLA battery, they want 14.7 VDC instead of the more usual 14.4 VDC.

It's well known in the solar/RV/Marine world that automotive alternator regulators are not all that kind to batteries, and that a better regulator nearly always results in a longer service life from the battery. These regulators and controllers, unlike the automotive regulators, have a minimum of 3 stage charging (Bulk, Adsorption, and float stages) like the better battery chargers have.
 

DirtDonk

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Was going to say something along the lines of what az said as well. Even though they have a stellar reputation, it’s always possible that either you got a bad one, or the quality is going downhill like it has with so many other Battery manufacturers.
Even though you might be on the right track with the charging system, the battery itself is a another possibility.

After all, even though you use yours harder than most, there are literally millions of perfectly happy batteries running around with 3G alternators.
 

Broncobowsher

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When running the winch, bypass the DC-DC. You are burning power in bulk anyway, recharge in bulk. Not like it is going to matter at this point. Once mostly recovered go back to DC-DC for the final maintenance and top off.
 

73azbronco

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so in my decades of wrenching, never heard of an alternator being blamed for a battery dyeing, unless it was dead. Also, if you are getting more than 2 years, thats industry norm right now.
 
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ntsqd

ntsqd

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Industry norm is a symptom of poor regulator design, not what a battery is really capable of. 10 years isn't unheard of once you use a multi-step charging method. 2 years may be acceptable to a ground vehicle user, but when the battery is part of a bank of them in a boat or a remote, off-grid application where you have to replace the bank as a set it gets into being a LOT of money if you're only getting 2 years out of them.
 
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