4G Alternator wiring into Painless Bronco harness.

[DirtDonk]

Sounds like it might be awhile yet before the new style holder gets into the Painless pipeline.
All current Painless setups, including yours will still have the single Maxi-Fuse holder for the cabin power. And you would have sourced your own Mega-Fuse holder for the charge wire.
If you don't already have the large charge cable and fuse, you could opt for the Midi size instead and then if you decide to change out the Maxi later to match, you would be half way there.

Even if you already have, and install a Mega-Fuse in the charge system, you can also change them out later if you decide you want to go that route instead.
No performance change in other words, just convenience and aesthetics.
But it's possible too that pricing for replacement parts will change as well.

Changing later, the Midi and Mega are probably a straight swap with no wiring change for the alternator charge circuit. But going from a Maxi to a Midi might require different crimped end connectors.
Personally even though I like the Midi, and it's a reasonable replacement for the charge wire, I'm not sure I prefer it over the Maxi for cabin power, or not. The Maxi is very compact and replacement fuses are available everywhere just like the Maxi and Midi. At least around here the stores carry all three I think.
Have not compared the cost of replacement fuses, but that does not always come to mind because I don't plan to replace a lot of fuses.
So for me it would come down to aesthetics of having two of the same, rather than two different holders.

Obviously I'm on the fence still. On the one hand it's very nice to have one style fuse fit the two different holders, but on the other the Maxi is very compact. And you already own it.
Guess it depends on how crowded your engine compartment is, or if your sense of balance is struck by having two identical fuse holders in a row maybe.
Either way you still have different rated fuses for each. One with 50 to 70 amp ratings, and one with 150 to 175 amp ratings.
If you already have the Mega Fuse and charge cable, then it's up to you if think matching fuse holders is important enough to toss out the old ones and buy new.

Paul

 

[hossbronco]

I’m looking to buy a new Powermaster alternator. Does the Explorer use the I.D.A models or the PCM models?

Also, the Painless instructions say to use Motorcraft WPT-119 and WPT-851 pigtails for a 3G alternator. Are both of these used on the 4G alternator as well? The instructions are a little vague and I can’t access the photos on the first page of this thread.

 

[DirtDonk]

I’m looking to buy a new Powermaster alternator. Does the Explorer use the I.D.A models or the PCM models?

I'm not sure what those are? But if the "PCM" model means that the computer controls alternator output, then no, we do not use that type of alternator on the Explorer setups. Maybe that's a 6G thing?
I'm just guessing at things of course, since I don't know what those stand for yet.

Also, the Painless instructions say to use Motorcraft WPT-119 and WPT-851 pigtails for a 3G alternator. Are both of these used on the 4G alternator as well? The instructions are a little vague and I can’t access the photos on the first page of this thread.

The connectors can be retrofitted back and forth. A 3G connector works fine on a 4G Explorer alternator. Only the wires themselves change orientation.
If i remember the main difference is that on the Explorer you do not use the White w/black stator wire that the 3G still needs.

Do you have a pic of the WPT-851? I looked and can only find an image of the 119. Which looks correct, but I wouldn't mind seeing better pics of that one too.
You might also just go down to the local parts store and see what they have in stock.

Basically with any 3G or 4G connector you connect the Green w/red stripe wire to a switched ignition source ( we have the same color wire in the factory as well as the Painless harness) so it gets 12v when the key is in the ON position only. Nothing in the ACC position.

The Yellow w/white stripe wire either connects to the old Yellow wire in the factory (or Painless) harness, or like most you can simply connect it right to the big output terminal on the alternator where your large battery cable size charge wire resides.
If you under-size that charge wire however, it's best to run the Yellow w/white stripe wire over to the fender area where the existing Yellow wire is.

The White w/black wire remains unused if i remember. You must cap it off for safety, but i would not cut it off completely. Keep it for a rainy day basically because it's against my religion to cut off wires and toss them until I know I'm NEVER EVER going to need it.
Which means I keep everything pretty much forever!

paul

 

[hossbronco]

Thanks Paul.

I was going to order model 47787 and then started second guessing when I ran across page 99 of this catalog:

http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/catalog.html#

They also have a 1 wire version. It sounds like I was right to begin with.

Here’s a catalog for Motorcraft pigtails. WPT-851 is on page 4. I can always look at the alternator after I order it, but it doesn’t hurt to know in advance so I can order everything at once.

https://www.tommycoolman.com/misc/motorcraft_connectorcatalog.pdf

 

[DirtDonk]

Thanks. Not sure what 851 is unless it’s the stator connector for the 3G only.
Maybe someone who has worked on one recently will know for sure. I can look at mine later and see if there’s anything like that on the explorer.

 

[Rustytruck]

I run a separate ground wire from the alternator case to the end of the negative cable at the engine block. 4 g needs to assure a good ground.. if your mounts are loose or painted do what you can to secure a good clean ground path.

 

[4x4man514]

subscribing to this wont be long before i get to this part!

 

[1buckeyefan1]

Love this thread..very helpful in mating my painless harness to efiguys custom explorer harness. I have a few questions that weren't covered and I'm hoping 904 or someone can chime in.

How do I attach #914 (green/red) to the Ford green red coming off the 4g alternator? The Ford wire feess back to the explorer ECU. I believe I have to tap into this elsewhere besides right at the alternator?

Is 960 red still used with the efiguy setup? It used to go from the alternator to the maxi fuse? I believe this is no longer needed due to it include as part of efiguys fuse block now (pictured)

 

[DirtDonk]

Just to be clear here, you are running 100% factory bronco wiring harness throughout the rest of the vehicle? Only adding the Explorer engine and EFIGUY harness?

 

[1buckeyefan1]

Just to be clear here, you are running 100% factory bronco wiring harness throughout the rest of the vehicle? Only adding the Explorer engine and EFIGUY harness?

Yep, 100% Painless bronco harness through the rest of the vehicle and adding in the explorer 5.0, 4r70w and the EFIGuy harness.

I'm thinking I can ignore both wires since i'm using the EFIGuy harness. The red/green in his harness runs from the 4g alternator and feeds into the ECU.

Pretty sure #960 red is no longer needed either. I've got a 12ga red coming back from the EFIGuy fuse block that i believe does the battery charging (I think)

 

[DirtDonk]

OK so not factory original.
And though painless uses the original colors, it’s not the original orientation, routing or design.
Although in the case of your questions I don’t think it matters much. I wanted to make sure what you were using because frankly those first two pictures look like original wiring. Not something new.

I’m probably getting a little too deep into this since I’m not an expert on either EFIguy’s harnesses, or explorer integration. Even though that’s what I have!
But I can tell you this. Nothing in the Efi guy harness charges your battery.
That is still going to be handled through a separate battery cable size wire with separate 175 amp fuse directly from your alternator’s BAT output terminal to the battery.
Whether on the battery positive directly, or on the starter relay.

Looks like the red wire in question simply connects to the battery to power the relay and fuse center.
That center does not take the place of your in cab fuse panel. Nor does anything in there take the place of your main fuse panel’s main input wire.
Which is usually black from the factory, but might be the red wire we’re talking about from the Painless harness. I never remember the numbers, so I’ll have to go back and look.
Hopefully someone will pop in soon and give you the straight scoop.

 

[1buckeyefan1]

OK so not factory original.
And though painless uses the original colors, it’s not the original orientation, routing or design.
Although in the case of your questions I don’t think it matters much. I wanted to make sure what you were using because frankly those first two pictures look like original wiring. Not something new.

I’m probably getting a little too deep into this since I’m not an expert on either EFIguy’s harnesses, or explorer integration. Even though that’s what I have!
But I can tell you this. Nothing in the Efi guy harness charges your battery.
That is still going to be handled through a separate battery cable size wire with separate 175 amp fuse directly from your alternator’s BAT output terminal to the battery.
Whether on the battery positive directly, or on the starter relay.

Looks like the red wire in question simply connects to the battery to power the relay and fuse center.
That center does not take the place of your in cab fuse panel. Nor does anything in there take the place of your main fuse panel’s main input wire.
Which is usually black from the factory, but might be the red wire we’re talking about from the Painless harness. I never remember the numbers, so I’ll have to go back and look.
Hopefully someone will pop in soon and give you the straight scoop.

Alright.. i finally spent some time researching and have a better understanding. I'm hoping someone could give me a sanity check:

Sorry for the harness confusion. I'm definitely using a Painless 'body' harness, coupled with a 2001 Explorer/EFI guy harness.

I'll try to break it down by wire:

#914 (green/red) - as posted earlier in this thread: The 914 green/r wire, is powered when ign on, and controls the alternator off/on by collapsing field when off.

My thought now is to simply connect the Painless #914 (green/red) to my Ford/EFIGuy green/red under the dash. I'm still a little puzzled though by EFIGuy's label on this wire (pic attached): "Alternator Charge Light Ground, other side of bulb is hot in run". I'm more curious why he doesn't indicate that this wire doesn't need to be connected to some sort of switch power to tell the alternator when it should be turned on/off? It seems like the alternator wouldn't work properly without this wire connected?

#933 (black/green) - slightly confused on how to wire the painless + efiguy harness together at the ignition? i originally thought I'd simply unhook #933 and #919 and replace them with the Ford/EFIGuy pink & red at my ignition? But it seems like at least #933 still needs to share Ignition to power the Fuse block as well as send power to #914 to turn on the alternator?

I think I need to wire both #933 (green/red) and EFIGuy red to share the Ignition (I) terminal?

#960 (red) - Paul, you were spot on. Without this, my battery doesn't charge. But I need to replace it with a 6ga equivalent + 150a mega fuse and run it from the hot lug on the 4G alternator back to the battery side of the starter relay?

#915 (black/yellow) - appears to be unused now, consensus seems to be hook it up to the maxi fuse along side #916 for now and save for future use?

#916 (black) - connects to the starter relay via the 70a maxi fuse.

#901 (black/red) - no longer used, remove

#914 (orange) - no longer used, remove

(yellow) - no longer used, hot - terminate.



Thanks Paul & others!

 

[DirtDonk]

#914 (green/red) - as posted earlier in this thread: The 914 green/r wire, is powered when ign on, and controls the alternator off/on by collapsing field when off.

My thought now is to simply connect the Painless #914 (green/red) to my Ford/EFIGuy green/red under the dash. I'm still a little puzzled though by EFIGuy's label on this wire (pic attached): "Alternator Charge Light Ground, other side of bulb is hot in run". I'm more curious why he doesn't indicate that this wire doesn't need to be connected to some sort of switch power to tell the alternator when it should be turned on/off? It seems like the alternator wouldn't work properly without this wire connected?

That wording confuzzles me too.
But as for the wording about a "charge light" this is how they are done at the factory. But your Bronco never came with a charge light, so if you want one you'd have to make your own.
The function beyond the bulb is the same, where it excites/energizes the regulator and gets things to charging. So the alternator could not care less whether the power to the Green w/red wire comes directly from the ignition switch, or through a lamp, OR through the EFIGuy harness.

#933 (black/green) - slightly confused on how to wire the painless + efiguy harness together at the ignition? i originally thought I'd simply unhook #933 and #919 and replace them with the Ford/EFIGuy pink & red at my ignition? But it seems like at least #933 still needs to share Ignition to power the Fuse block as well as send power to #914 to turn on the alternator?

I think I need to wire both #933 (green/red) and EFIGuy red to share the Ignition (I) terminal?

Maybe? Waiting for 904 to get better. Got covid at SEMA so is home, but a bit on the down-n-out side temporarily.
Hopefully it's not effecting his mental recall or typing fingers!
Are you sure that there are not 2 separate branches of the Green w/red wire from the EFI harness? If only the one, what are the other connections to the EFI harness from the body harness?
Are there separate wires for integrating it into the rest of the main harness like most other engine harnesses have?

#960 (red) - Paul, you were spot on. Without this, my battery doesn't charge. But I need to replace it with a 6ga equivalent + 150a mega fuse and run it from the hot lug on the 4G alternator back to the battery side of the starter relay.

Your battery would still charge using just the Black w/yellow wire, but in this case you don't use that either.
The Red #960 is a supplement to the #915 Wire when using a slightly higher output alternator. But with the 3G & 4G alternators, you're way over that. Hence the 6ga battery cable sized charge wire to take their places.
I think Red is independent and you just leave it out. The Black w/yellow however is part of the harness so that's the one that you re-purpose or tuck away safely to use later. It's always hot of course, so "tuck it away" very safely!

And carry extra fuses with you. That 150 may seem overkill for a 130a alternator, but some 3G's can put out as much as 155a from tests I've seen. Putting it pretty close to, or just over the max rating of the fuse. It might not be enough to blow it unintentionally, but it might put it under some strain. Which is why most of us run 175a fuses instead.
And to be sure, your alternator may never need to put out it's maximum. It'll likely live most of it's life charging the battery and running 20a worth of stuff in the truck. Biggest strain is recharging a dead battery or while winching, or right after the starter is used and the battery needs a refresh. But mostly just a few amps running...

#915 (black/yellow) - appears to be unused now, consensus seems to be hook it up to the maxi fuse along side #916 for now and save for future use?

There ya go...

#916 (black) - connects to the starter relay via the 70a maxi fuse.

Yep.

#901 (black/red) - no longer used, remove

This is a ground wire so it is not necessary to remove. In fact it's still a good idea to use it unless you're going to make an even bigger one?
The alternator does ground sufficiently through it's case and attaching bolts as long as those surfaces are clean and free of paint and/or rust. The separate ground wire on alternators is supplemental, but nobody ever got in trouble for having an extra ground wire here. Most of us use the same gauge as the charge wire, but here again that's probably way overkill for it's specific job.
But nobody ever got in trouble for overkilling a ground either. That I know of anyway!

#914 (orange) - no longer used, remove

Correct. That connection is now internal to the alternator and no longer needs an external wire.

(yellow) - no longer used, hot - terminate.

Well... Uh, frankly I would use it for it's originally intended purpose.
However you already have your Yellow w/white wire shortened and connected to the alternator's BAT post it looks like? If so you are not really going to be using the Yellow wire. But just to reiterate (I think it was already mentioned here, or in another forum) doing it the way it was intended (using the Yellow wire) is just "better" from an electrical standpoint.
But as bad as the short wire is on paper, hooking it directly to the BAT terminal seems to work for everyone that does it this way.
Never heard any complaints, so you can probably leave it out and terminate it safely

All I got at the moment.

Paul

 

[4x4man514]

hey guys well im finally caught up to this point so i figured id chime in on this thread instead of starting a new one since there is already so much knowledge being thrown out here and this is exactly the questions i have. ive read myself into understanding and then right back into confusion here, lol anyways, here are my questions

1. i got that the green/red goes to the green/red on the alt. my question is does the #915 black/yellow go to the yellow wire on plug? or do i use the yellow wire that originally went to the regulator in the painless harness? it seems ive heard both ways and i dont fully understand the correct way at this point.

 

[4x4man514]

2. so the 901 ground can be deleted as long as the alternator is grounded properly? and the orange wire can be deleted completely?

3. #957 and #919 can be wire together and go to the signal post on the solenoid. the brown coil wire can be ignored since im using the wild horses ron francis efi harness correct? where does the other end of this terminate? do i need to chase it down?

4. the #916 wire is the wire that carries power back to the fusebox correct?

5. so in all the brown wire(coil), the yellow wire(from reg may or may not be used depending), black901 and orange wire can be discarded correct?

6. leaving the 915(to alt) the 916(to fuse box) the green/red(to alt) 957red/blue(start signal to sol), the 919red/blue(neutral safety to solenoid)

does all this sound right?

 

[4x4man514]

and lastly i have a 220 amp alternator . im running it through a 250 amp inline fuse and then to the batt side of the sol. im using 2awg wire for this

the 916 wire should come off the solenoid side of that fuse and go through a 70 amp fuse to the fuse box. and for that matter can i run anything that is battery hot from that same terminal? like the power wire for the efi? or is there anything that has to go directly to the battery or solenoid? (that way i can keep all wires hidden in the box)

does this part sound right?

thanks for everything guys!

 

[DirtDonk]

1. my question is does the #915 black/yellow go to the yellow wire on plug? or do i use the yellow wire that originally went to the regulator in the painless harness?

No need to go to the hassle of trying to splice a large 10ga wire (915) to a much smaller wire (the Yellow one). Should be easier to mate the Yellow one meant for the old regulator to the Yellow w/white one on the new regulator plug.

They both have the same power source ultimately (the battery) and are hot all the time.
Better to either repurpose the Black w/yellow, attach it to an auxiliary power terminal or temporarily attach it to the battery side of the starter relay.

(Edit: You can also go the "lazy" route which is to simply connect the new Yellow w/white wire from the 3G or 4G regulator connector directly to the BAT output post of the alternator.
It's better to connect it to the other Yellow wire which gets it's reading closer to the battery, but there's no real arguing that the simple short run to the BAT output does actually work. Just that's not how the factory did it, so it's not how I do it)

 

[DirtDonk]

2. so the 901 ground can be deleted as long as the alternator is grounded properly?

Sure. But basically, why would you?
If you're doing all the wiring anyway, is it just that you want to keep it as clean as possible by leaving out one wire? Personally I'd keep an additional ground, but strictly speaking, no it's not a requirement as long as the install is at least as good as Ford's original installation of the same components.

and the orange wire can be deleted completely?

Yes, because it's redundant and no longer pertains to the new system.
It's the Field wire and is how the old external regulator communicates with the old style 1G alternator. Your new alternator's regulator is inside so has a direct Field connection, making the Orange wire obsolete.

3. #957 and #919 can be wire together and go to the signal post on the solenoid.

Please include wire colors for those of us that have not memorized all the circuit numbers that we never used in conversation until recently.
What is meant by the "signal" post of the relay/solenoid? The small "S" terminal?
I'll just wait until you pop back with colors or I have time to look at the Painless book again. Or is one a Painless and the other the EFI harness?
If so then yes, they get wired together or at least get terminals and go to the S post.

the brown coil wire can be ignored since im using the wild horses ron francis efi harness correct?

Yes.

where does the other end of this terminate? do i need to chase it down?

No. But you do need to cap off the visible end safely so it won't short out on anything when the key is in the ON position.

4. the #916 wire is the wire that carries power back to the fusebox correct?

Yes. It's the one with the Maxi/Midi fuse, correct? That's the one that powers the whole shebang and without it you don't get nuthin!

5. so in all the brown wire(coil), the yellow wire(from reg may or may not be used depending), black901 and orange wire can be discarded correct?

Mostly yes. Thinking more about it I suppose this #901 wire may just be the one from the alternator to the old style regulator. If so then I take back what I said above and you can remove it.
But I would substitute an actual ground wire for the alternator instead of just leaving it be. Sorry I did not catch that this might be what that wire is before.

6. leaving the 915(to alt) the 916(to fuse box) the green/red(to alt) 957red/blue(start signal to sol), the 919red/blue(neutral safety to solenoid) does all this sound right?

No/Yes/Maybe.
Again, I'm not up on my numbers. And not sure why Painless tells you to utilize the #915 instead of the smaller Yellow wire that was originally dedicated for this purpose, but I'm still in the Yellow camp.
Where it gets a little gray is the #919 and #957 both Red w/blue wires. What are they and which one is which? If they are both Painless wires, then no you don't need both. You only need one. Either the one from the Neutral Safety Switch (if you have an automatic) or the other one (if you have a manual) but not both.
Now, if one of them is from the EFI harness then probably the answer changes to yes.

What transmission are you using, and if it has the NSS installed you can test both of those wires to see if they are both hot in START with the transmission in Park, Neutral and in any other position.
I was not aware that Painless included two separate wires. My installs with earlier harnesses included only one Red w/blue wire. It was simply long enough to use either directly to the starter relay's "S" post, or cut in two with one half from the ignition switch to the NSS and the other from the NSS to the relay.
If they have both in their harness (like Centech used to do) then you have to decide which one you will use.
But definitely one, not both in that case.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

and lastly i have a 220 amp alternator . im running it through a 250 amp inline fuse and then to the batt side of the sol. im using 2awg wire for this

Sounds like a plan.

the 916 wire should come off the solenoid side of that fuse and go through a 70 amp fuse to the fuse box.

Yes.

...and for that matter can i run anything that is battery hot from that same terminal? like the power wire for the efi? or is there anything that has to go directly to the battery or solenoid? (that way i can keep all wires hidden in the box)

Yes. Anything that needs constant power could be attached to the battery side of the starter relay. BUT...
It's very easy to run out of room on the single stud. Some have extra long studs to help with this, but then it becomes a bit messy with all the wires. Being hidden like yours will be eliminates this as a visual problem, so you only have to worry about it being long enough.
But this is where that auxiliary power stud I mentioned earlier comes in handy. If you have room in the box you can mount a single stud and attach a power wire to it and then run some other wires from it to their loads.
If it's not a bunch of large loads at the other ends of the wires, then the 10ga Black w/yellow wire we discussed earlier can come in handy. The old wire from the alternator is connected directly to the battery through a rather long circuitous route. But it is direct and can handle a bit of a load.
If you plan to put several power supply wires that feed heavier loads, then feeding the auxiliary power stud with either a larger gauge wire, or at least a shorter run of 10ga right from the relay to the aux stud might be enough.
No one answer fits all scenarios. You have to decide what is good enough now, and what is good enough down the road if you add more stuff and might need to change the original configuration.

So there! Did I give you enough malarkey to keep you busy reading and re-reading for awhile longer?

Paul

 

[4x4man514]

No need to go to the hassle of trying to splice a large 10ga wire (915) to a much smaller wire (the Yellow one). Should be easier to mate the Yellow one meant for the old regulator to the Yellow w/white one on the new regulator plug.

They both have the same power source ultimately (the battery) and are hot all the time.
Better to either repurpose the Black w/yellow, attach it to an auxiliary power terminal or temporarily attach it to the battery side of the starter relay.

(Edit: You can also go the "lazy" route which is to simply connect the new Yellow w/white wire from the 3G or 4G regulator connector directly to the BAT output post of the alternator.
It's better to connect it to the other Yellow wire which gets it's reading closer to the battery, but there's no real arguing that the simple short run to the BAT output does actually work. Just that's not how the factory did it, so it's not how I do it)

ok im straight there. thanks!