5.0 swap

[Moon's74]

I've recently acquired an 89 5.0 from a mustang. I would like to put it in my 74 EB. OK, before I start, and get you started, I did do a search and everything keeps coming up with EFI installations. I'm not putting on EFI, just the 5.0. I have a tired/running 302 in it now, just want to upgrade to roller motor.

I don't have any of the fuel injection system nor the serpentine belt drive system.
My questions are:
1. Can I just put on my 289 performer? If so, what cam should I use? I was thinking about a B303, but don't know how it would perform carb'ed. Does this change the firing order?
2. Does the water pump rotate in the opposite direction or is this just due to the serp. system?
3. Can I put on my belt/pulley system? I have a saginaw PS pump, otherwise stock, no AC! If so, I could use older water pump and not have to change the hose locations, right?
4. What do I need for proper balance? I have a C4 auto.

I know the dizzy will have to change. I got this thing for free, so I'm going to do a rebuild myself.
Thanks.

Moon's

 

[Emanonjb]

I did the same thing with an 87 5.0...Just use the accessories off of your old motor and put them on the front. Now would be the time to buy a new water pump. I bought a standard rotation Flow Kooler pump. The serpentine belt is what causes the need for the reverse rotation pump. If you put your V-belt driven accessories and brackets on the front of your motor then you want to stick with a standard rotation (just like what is on your bronco now). A standard rotation pump will also allow you to reuse your exsisting radiator hoses. Also the stock mustang belt setup sticks out farther towards the front and will most likely cause clearance issues with your radiator and Fan.
The things that you may not have thought about are plugs for the back of the heads where the mustangs emissions tubes went in. I found some on summit. If you are running a mechanical fuel pump you will need a timing cover that has a hole in the side for the mechanical pump lever and you will need an eccentric that bolts to the front of the cam for the pump lever to ride on so you will pump gas. you can try the timing cover and eccentric from your 289....I beleive it should work fine. as far as cam selection, I am not sure...but I know that if you call any reputable cam company and tell them what you are running or planning to run as far as heads and carb and what you are using the truck for then they can tell you what would work.. I just stuck with the stock cam from the 5 liter. you will need a 50 oz flywheel as well as a 50 oz harmonic balancer with the correct bolt pattern for your Crank pulley from the 289. Off of the top of my head I can't remember which is which but one crank pulley is a 4 bolt and one is a 3 bolt, just look at the pulley on your 289. I think I got mine from wild horses, it has both bolt patterns and watch for the spacing..so that your crank pulley will not stick out to far if you are using the stock V belt accessory brackets.
You will also need a Distributor with the right type of distributer gear depending on the camshaft you are using. the hydraulic roller cam that came stock requires a harder gear material than the older cams...
Here is some of what I had to getpurchased form summit)
FMS-M-6375-A50 FLEX PLATE 50 OZ
SES-5-60-04-201 289/351W TIMING CHAIN COVER
TFS-51400265 THERMACTOR PLUG 5/8-11 EACH
I can't seem to find any of my other receipts but hopefully this can get you started in the right direction.
Hope it helps.

 

[Viperwolf1]

Everything from your existing 302 will bolt on and work on the 5.0 except for balancer, flexplate, maybe converter and distributor gear. You'll need a 50 oz balancer and flexplate. Bad thing is you probably have the 10.5" torque converter bolt pattern on a 164 tooth flexplate like I did. They're not available any more. If that's the case you'll need a converter with the 11 7/16" bolt pattern and a 164 tooth, 50 oz flexplate. The HO cam from the mustang is a good one. You'll need a steel cam gear to go with it.

 

[Broncobowsher]

1) yes the intake will work. The cam dictates the firing order not the intake. It will all work fine as long as you keep the 5.0 HO/351W firing order

2)The water pump rotaates backwards due to the serpentine belt configuration. The water pump runs on the back side of the belt and this turns it backwards of the crank. Using the Bronco water pump will let you run V-belts and all the standard accessories.
BUT THERE IS A CATCH! The timing cover has the ports radiused for water coming off the pump rotating the other way. The Bronco water pump will bolt on and work, but the ports won't flow right. You should use the Bronco timing cover with the correct radius ports.

3) Correct. Catch is the harmonic damper. The HO will be a 50 oz-in balance 4-bolt. The stock is a 28 oz-in balance 3-bolt. The 3-bolt pulleys won't work on the 4-bolt damper. The 3-bolt damper will be balanced wrong for the HO motor.

4) you need a 50 oz-in flexplate with 164 teeth. You may need a new torque convertor with the right bolt pattern. The old 10.5" bolt circle is no longer serviced. If you have the 10.5" bolt circle torque convertor it is recomended you pick up a stock replacment 11.4" converter. Yours being a '74 could have the 10.5" from the factory. All the inbalance is in the flexplate if that matters to you.

 

[broncaholic]

2)The water pump rotaates backwards due to the serpentine belt configuration. The water pump runs on the back side of the belt and this turns it backwards of the crank. Using the Bronco water pump will let you run V-belts and all the standard accessories.
BUT THERE IS A CATCH! The timing cover has the ports radiused for water coming off the pump rotating the other way. The Bronco water pump will bolt on and work, but the ports won't flow right. You should use the Bronco timing cover with the correct radius ports.

I am running a 302 water pump on a 5.0 in reverse rotation. The ports are rotated the wrong way but maybe the difference is made with the Flowkooler pump? Higher efficiency? As it was explained to me, it is more about pressure forcing the water to flow.

 

[Broncobowsher]

I am running a 302 water pump on a 5.0 in reverse rotation. The ports are rotated the wrong way but maybe the difference is made with the Flowkooler pump? Higher efficiency? As it was explained to me, it is more about pressure forcing the water to flow.

You will still have water running off a sharp edge causing cavatation erosion to the timing cover. I had a cover that was done wrong, there were nice big pockets forming from the waterflow not flowing smoothly. I wish I kept that cover.

If you think of how the waterpump spins teh water off the impeller and look at the ports...

 

[70_Steve]

Also, that 5.0 won't have the cam/eccentric for a mechanical fuel pump, so even with an early timing cover with the hole for a fuel pump, you'll need a block-off plate and an electric fuel pump.

 

[blubuckaroo]

Couple of questions,
-When you install the new four bolt harmonic balancer, will the old pulleys stay lined up?
-Can you reinstall the fuel pump eccentric from the old 302 onto the roller cam if you want to use a carbureter?

 

[Broncobowsher]

Couple of questions,
-When you install the new four bolt harmonic balancer, will the old pulleys stay lined up?
-Can you reinstall the fuel pump eccentric from the old 302 onto the roller cam if you want to use a carbureter?

The old pulleys are 3-bolt, they will not fit a 4-bolt damper. So the question is mute

They did offer a mechanical fuel pump for a year with the roller cam. So it can be done. Now if the old ecentric will work or not is another question. There are 2 thicknesses of cam gear and 2 depths of ecentrics. If you have the right match of parts, yes it will work. Get them wrong and the ecentric will eat out the back of the timing chain cover or the ecentric may not even be long enough to reach the fuel pump arm.

 

[blubuckaroo]

The old pulleys are 3-bolt, they will not fit a 4-bolt damper. So the question is mute

They did offer a mechanical fuel pump for a year with the roller cam. So it can be done. Now if the old ecentric will work or not is another question. There are 2 thicknesses of cam gear and 2 depths of ecentrics. If you have the right match of parts, yes it will work. Get them wrong and the ecentric will eat out the back of the timing chain cover or the ecentric may not even be long enough to reach the fuel pump arm.

Let me restate,
If I use one of those universal 3 & 4 bolt harmonic balencers, on a motor made for a four bolt balancer, can I use my three bolt pulley and will the belts line up?

 

[jon705]

I did a similar swap with an 87 5.0. Kept the intake and carb from my 76. I used the serp setup from the 87 and it wasn't too bad of a swap. Only cut into the radiator one time, then I gave up on trying to fit the clutch fan!

As others mentioned you'll need to use the old timing cover that has the hole for the mechanical fuel pump unless you go electric.

The hose location from the water pump to the radiator will be altered if you keep the serp setup (reverse water pump direction), which I adjusted for by using a longer flexible hose.

If you go with the serp setup the accessories stick out further than stock v-belt but I made it all fit without altering the radiator placement by shaving down the fan spacer. Speaking of that, you'll need a flex fan made for reverse direction as the stock one will not work to cool the radiator and the clutch fans are too thick.

The distributor you need comes from an 85 mustang with 5 speed manual trans (what to tell the Autozone guys when ordering).

As for the flexplate you'll need 50oz-in balance. I tried finding a new one with correct bolt spacing and teeth without success. Ended up taking my old 28oz-in balance to a machine shop, along with the 50oz-in, and asked them to rebalance the 28oz-in to 50oz-in. It cost about $75.

As for the harmonic balancer, if you go with the serp setup no worries. If you stick with v-belt you'll have another part to purchase.

Don't forget about the exhaust ports in the rear of the heads on the 89 5.0. I didn't notice these until after I installed the new motor in the truck. There was a heck of a clicking sound on my test run and I thought something was wrong with the motor. Found out about the holes and spent a couple agonizing hours squeezing my hands up there with some metal plates to bolt over the holes.

That's the readers digest version. There are a few threads on here about swapping a 5.0 and keeping it carbed. I know I posted a couple questions, and found some other advice too. Let us know what else you need.

 

[Moon's74]

Thanks for the input

Thanks all for the input.
I plan on using my 302 V-drive belt system and getting a universal harmonic balancer. This will keep the original fan and other stuff.
Haven't decided what to do about the flex plate yet. Probably go with the newer 11.4in. torque converter. I assume the larger converter and flex plate will fit in my 74 C4 bell housing.
Sticking with HO cam. Will try the fuel pump eccentric. If that don't work then I'll go electric.
As for the timing cover, I think you all said my 74 302 will work, just may need to block the fuel pump hole if the cam eccentric won't work, right? This will keep my flow kooler water pump moving water without eating away the cover.

Once again, thanks for the inputs. I'll try to be better about keeping you all posted on progress.
So far you've all helped me do my front disc brake conversion, 3G alternator upgrade, power steering upgrade, and various other cooling and suspension upgrades.
Thanks again and I'm sure I'll be asking more questions as I go. Eventually I'll be able to answer some.

 

[Moon's74]

My Build

Update:
It's been a long time coming, but I finally got my 5.0 out of the machine shop, meaning it took me a year to put it in.
Against the populous I decided to go with the E303 cam. I like the higher RPM's because it will be 70/30 offroad/highway, and when I say offroad I mean desert race style not crawling or climbing so the old RV cam in my original motor was killing me as it was done at 4000 RPM or so. I'm sure the age of my motor wasn't helping.
I've put in 4:11 gears and 33" KM2's.
I'll be installing radius arm extensions, stone crusher, and using Fox reservoir shocks. 14" in front with F250 mounts, and 10" in rear...got the idea from a local guy who runs this setup in the desert and loves it, thanks Dan.
Lucked into an exploder serp setup at my local pick a part, woo hoo.
Just got the old motor out yesterday. Moving right along now.
Anyway, I'll post picks as I go for those interested.

 

[KennyB]

We found a New Old Stock 91 GT40 motor.Slapped on a Windage tray, Edelbrock Performer, and 600CFM Carb. Chevy HEI ignition, Stock Mustang Cam, Balanced Flywheel and 4 bolt Balancer, Short Ceramic Headers.... we got 302 HP and 322 Tq at the crank! You're going to love it...

 

[Bart]

In talking with a friend who's a Ford transmission mechanic about this, he said to grind off the small welds that hold on a 50 oz. balance weight and the same for the 28 oz and reweld the 50 oz onto the other flex plate. Just lay one on top of the other and balance weights are in the same spot just more of it. There's a small knoch in one of the six flex plate to crank bolts, make sure they are in the same place (when you lay one on top of the other). On a side note if you use a center punch to mark the crank (reference that small knoch) when you remove the flex plate, reinstallation is a snap.
He also said that a guy can re-drill the four t-q stud holes in the flex plate to match the oem t-q studs (10.5" vs 11.4"). In my mind, I'm thinking that I'd drill those holes just a little oversize so that the bolts can self center in the flex plate and not put undo stress on the trans pump.