'69 Transmission Clicking when engaged...

[switchblade2k]

So when my transmission is engaged, and the vehicle is rolling(forward or reverse) I have a clicking/ticking sound that increases as wheel speed increases. I'm pretty confident it is in the transmission because I can feel the click in the shifter. This started happening after a local "cruise" event, lots of starting and stopping and then a 20 mile highways drive home noticed as I was pulling into the garage.

Any help with further diagnosis and fix would be greatly appreciated.

PS I did a search for this symptom and didn't find anything that I thought matched the symptoms I'm experiencing.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, does it click in all gears, including reverse, does it click coasting in neutral, and did you bump the transfer case shift lever? Good luck

 

[Broncobowsher]

Engine off and coasting, do you get it?
Make sure that the front hubs are unlocked, sometimes kids will lock one side in.
My next guess would be U-joints.

 

[switchblade2k]

Hi, does it click in all gears, including reverse, does it click coasting in neutral, and did you bump the transfer case shift lever? Good luck

Yes it clicks in all gears even neutral, and tried shifting the transfer case shift lever around and didn't make any difference.

Thanks for the help...still a mystery though!

 

[switchblade2k]

Engine off and coasting, do you get it?
Make sure that the front hubs are unlocked, sometimes kids will lock one side in.
My next guess would be U-joints.

I don't get it with the clutch disengaged and coasting(engine on) don't have any convenient hills to try engine off coast...

Thanks for the help!

 

[Broncobowsher]

Don't need a hill to coast. Just an empty road. Get up to 45MPH, shift to neutral, turn off engine, engage clutch and coast.

What this does is stop the clutch, input shaft, countershaft, and all speed gears inside the transmission.
If the clicking is still there, it is not an issue inside the transmission. It is something with the parts that are still spinning such as the axles, driveshafts, transfer case.

 

[switchblade2k]

Don't need a hill to coast. Just an empty road. Get up to 45MPH, shift to neutral, turn off engine, engage clutch and coast.

What this does is stop the clutch, input shaft, countershaft, and all speed gears inside the transmission.
If the clicking is still there, it is not an issue inside the transmission. It is something with the parts that are still spinning such as the axles, driveshafts, transfer case.

Ok, I'll give it a try! Thanks.

UPDATE: So I tried just what you suggested and when the clutch is engaged in Neutral engine off coasting the click goes away! Disengage the clutch and the click comes back! Also the click varies with the RPM of the engine not the speed I'm going. This all says its on the input side or inside the transmission...I think...

Thanks again for your help figuring this out.

 

[switchblade2k]

So I know nothing about transmissions what could be clicking in the transmission. I was under my bronco and noticed my throw out bearing fork boot is all broken up and the fork wiggles/is loose in the 90 degree axis from the pivot axis...not sure if that is ok...

any help appreciated...

 

[Broncobowsher]

The rubber boot rots and falls off all the time. Not really a big deal. I am pretty sure the loose bit you feel is OK as well. The way I read the description, it's OK. Self aligning.

The throwout bearing changes noise with engine RPM and with clutch engage/disengage. Does not follow wheel speed.

 

[switchblade2k]

The rubber boot rots and falls off all the time. Not really a big deal. I am pretty sure the loose bit you feel is OK as well. The way I read the description, it's OK. Self aligning.

The throwout bearing changes noise with engine RPM and with clutch engage/disengage. Does not follow wheel speed.

But isn't the throwout bearing not spinning when the clutch is engaged?? thats when I get the noise, no noise when clutch is disengaged(depressed).

i also changed out the transmission oil today to see if it was low or old, it was a little low and very greenish black not golden like the new stuff I put in. But no change in noise.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yeah, most owners never quite get around to changing the gear oil in the trans. Good on you for giving it a try at least. I think it's cheap insurance to change it, just in case it makes a difference. Sorry to hear it did not help in this case.

An item that can make clicking sounds in a tranny, whether input or output would be the main bearing. It's just a big old fashioned caged ball bearing setup. When my output bearing shattered it sounded like a bunch of steel ball bearings getting flung around the inside of the housing. Which is in fact exactly what it was!
It was very inconsistent though, coming and going at different times after the first couple of minutes of driving as most of the settled down into the sump.
But if a main bearing is just going bad, I suppose it could click like yours. Doesn't sound quite right, and I wasn't going to mention it earlier, but as the discussion progressed I thought it more and more possible.

But one thing that almost ALWAYS comes up when there is an odd noise, is the rear driveshaft's double-cardan (CV) assembly. I've heard them click, whine, whistle, rumble and scrape. All the same design and style, all different clues to their imminent failure.
At this point I would try removing the rear shaft and driving in front wheel drive only for a little bit.
If it's in the transmission input or output area, it'll still make noise. If it's in the rear output area of the transfer case, the rear driveshaft or the rear end, it should stop.

Paul

 

[switchblade2k]

Yeah, most owners never quite get around to changing the gear oil in the trans. Good on you for giving it a try at least. I think it's cheap insurance to change it, just in case it makes a difference. Sorry to hear it did not help in this case.

An item that can make clicking sounds in a tranny, whether input or output would be the main bearing. It's just a big old fashioned caged ball bearing setup. When my output bearing shattered it sounded like a bunch of steel ball bearings getting flung around the inside of the housing. Which is in fact exactly what it was!
It was very inconsistent though, coming and going at different times after the first couple of minutes of driving as most of the settled down into the sump.
But if a main bearing is just going bad, I suppose it could click like yours. Doesn't sound quite right, and I wasn't going to mention it earlier, but as the discussion progressed I thought it more and more possible.

But one thing that almost ALWAYS comes up when there is an odd noise, is the rear driveshaft's double-cardan (CV) assembly. I've heard them click, whine, whistle, rumble and scrape. All the same design and style, all different clues to their imminent failure.
At this point I would try removing the rear shaft and driving in front wheel drive only for a little bit.
If it's in the transmission input or output area, it'll still make noise. If it's in the rear output area of the transfer case, the rear driveshaft or the rear end, it should stop.

Paul

the fact that it clicks when the vehicle is stopped and in neutral tells me it isn't "joint" or "shaft" related.

so settling on its the transmission, would you recommend rebuilding it myself (which I have zero experience with transmissions), or buying a rebuilt or having a transmission shop do it? Also any help identifying the transmission...

 

[Broncobowsher]

I thought you said it followed vehicle speed and not engine speed?
But if it makes noise when stopped and idling in neutral that is very different. That does make it sound like clutch/transmission area. And engine speed related more than vehicle speed related.

By chance is it noticeably better in 3rd gear? That really points to a bearing as the bearings are loaded in all gears except 3rd (where it is 1:1 and just a pass through).

Post up in the wanted section for around where you are at. You can often find a good one for pretty cheap, as in $50 range. IF not free to a good home. Often get a good used one for cheaper than a parts kit to rebuild what you have.

But I will also go for try rebuilding it yourself. You can learn so much. Clear off a good bit of bench room and line everything up as you take it out. As long as you keep it organized it goes pretty easy. That is how I did automatics. You are not a pro, don't do what the pros do. They can throw everything randomly into a parts cleaner and know how it all goes back together when done. Go slow. Clean a single part or assembly at a time. It will take you longer, but you have a chance at putting it back together. This is where it is nice to have that spare transmission sitting in a corner as a backup plan. Or maybe a parts bin if not the backup plan.

 

[switchblade2k]

I thought you said it followed vehicle speed and not engine speed?
But if it makes noise when stopped and idling in neutral that is very different. That does make it sound like clutch/transmission area. And engine speed related more than vehicle speed related.

By chance is it noticeably better in 3rd gear? That really points to a bearing as the bearings are loaded in all gears except 3rd (where it is 1:1 and just a pass through).

Post up in the wanted section for around where you are at. You can often find a good one for pretty cheap, as in $50 range. IF not free to a good home. Often get a good used one for cheaper than a parts kit to rebuild what you have.

But I will also go for try rebuilding it yourself. You can learn so much. Clear off a good bit of bench room and line everything up as you take it out. As long as you keep it organized it goes pretty easy. That is how I did automatics. You are not a pro, don't do what the pros do. They can throw everything randomly into a parts cleaner and know how it all goes back together when done. Go slow. Clean a single part or assembly at a time. It will take you longer, but you have a chance at putting it back together. This is where it is nice to have that spare transmission sitting in a corner as a backup plan. Or maybe a parts bin if not the backup plan.

Ya I found that it wasn't vehicle speed while doing some of the other steps you had me try. I will try the 3rd gear test in the next day or so and reports back!

 

[Broncobowsher]

OK, somewhere I missed that bit of info. I'll say (from the latest info) probably in the transmission with a small chance of clutch.

 

[switchblade2k]

So I got the exhaust out, the shifters all disconnected, the drive lines removed and the cross member bolts out. Transfer case and transmission have been drained of fluid. Just waiting on getting a transmission jack from a buddy at work on Monday!

When draining the Transmission, right at the beginning I head 2 clicks in the drain pan and I found these...Pieces here

I believe this is parts to one of the roller bearings inside the Transmission!

 

[Broncobowsher]

Not that it will really matter since you will be tearing down the transmission, but lock the shift linkage into gear when you have the transfer case off. Or the main shaft can pull out and you get to do a rebuild to put all the parts in the right place, again.

 

[switchblade2k]

Not that it will really matter since you will be tearing down the transmission, but lock the shift linkage into gear when you have the transfer case off. Or the main shaft can pull out and you get to do a rebuild to put all the parts in the right place, again.

shift linkage for the Transmission or transfer case?

 

[DirtDonk]

Transmission. After removing the shift rods (leaving the levers attached to the transmission) you shift it into first gear and lock them together somehow.
There is a description of the special tool and how to make them in the Haynes, The Chilton's and I think the Ford service manuals.
I made the tool, but someone here did it with zip ties a few years ago and it worked sweet. You just need to lock them together so that when you yank on the transfer case, if it pulls on the rear trans shaft (which it does probably 90% of the time) it won't pop out of gear on it's own.

Paul

 

[switchblade2k]

Transmission. After removing the shift rods (leaving the levers attached to the transmission) you shift it into first gear and lock them together somehow.
There is a description of the special tool and how to make them in the Haynes, The Chilton's and I think the Ford service manuals.
I made the tool, but someone here did it with zip ties a few years ago and it worked sweet. You just need to lock them together so that when you yank on the transfer case, if it pulls on the rear trans shaft (which it does probably 90% of the time) it won't pop out of gear on it's own.

Paul

so front lever in center(strait up) and rear lever forward. If you zip tied them together as i described, can the front shift lever move out of N when the rear shift lever is engaged in a gear?