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Another Bronco Lean Question

DirtDonk

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Nov 3, 2003
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no matter what when I get them tight they are the same the passenger side is up about an inch off the floor. what am I doing wrong?

Well, from what it sounds like, you're not doing anything wrong. Just that the parts are not cooperating!
If you can't get them to sit level on the ground even when crisscrossing the bolts a little bit at a time, then they're likely not going to be level until you change something.

That was a good suggestion to check the arms, but you might be able to just eyeball if one has more curve to it than the other I would think.
If they're straight, you can cut into the big holes in the center section to get rid of the welds (if there are welds) and then turn a tube. Since you have already stood on a braced arm and they did not move, I'm guessing either they're welded good, or the press-fit is tighter than normal.
I've had no real experience turning the 44's since they're usually welded that I've seen. It's the model 30's that are usually just waiting to spin in their sockets with just the method you have already tried.
This is a 44 you're working on?

Some have cut the pads off the tube and corrected things that way. But that always seemed like more work to me. But if the tubes are not cooperating, maybe it'll come down to that.
Lot of weld to cut though!

Good luck.

Paul
 

pennyduke

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Paul, My rear measures 11 1/4 from top of axle tube to the bottom of the frame. The front measures 11 inches even. Does that tell us anything about the lean?
 

nvrstuk

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Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
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I thought "we'd" all agreed years ago that the standard stock height between axle tube and frame on an Early Bronco was 7" Front and 6 1/2" (or as low as 6") rear... it's referenced in at least a 1/2 dozen Posts and threads here on Classic Bronco...


Here's just one of them :http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260422
 
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nvrstuk

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Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
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PennyDuke --

Quote" Paul, My rear measures 11 1/4 from top of axle tube to the bottom of the frame. The front measures 11 inches even. Does that tell us anything about the lean?"

No, the rear measement will be 1/2" different (less) than the front.

So if you have 11" between the tube and the frame in the front you have a 4" lift...remember, many springs lift Broncos slightly more or less than advertised...I know many guys that have put a 3 1//2 rear leaf spring pack in and raised the rear over 5"...
 

DirtDonk

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That's correct. Sorry I got my numbers crossed for this thread. Hmm, hope I haven't done it in others!
Went back and corrected my previous numbers.

I don't remember ever using half-inch increments though. Always been 7 and 6 in my mind, but I also use "within half an inch or so" as a factor in their less-than-consistent heights from the factory.
And the fact that the one that was used as the original reference point could have been off too!

Thanks nvrstuk.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Paul, My rear measures 11 1/4 from top of axle tube to the bottom of the frame. The front measures 11 inches even. Does that tell us anything about the lean?

So, are you saying that it's just high in the rear? Or is it leaning to one side?
Being high in the rear is not Bronco lean. And in fact is not a "lean" at all, but a rake.
And many Broncos did that even from the factory, depending on their weight, setup, and spring options. Especially true for some spring rates when the full rear top was removed.

In your case, you have roughly 4" in the front and 5" in the rear. How is yours lifted, and what is the setup?
I know I should know by now, but I don't remember all your Bronco's details. Is it running a hard top, or topless? Big bumper and winch in the front by any chance?
As nvrstuk said, maybe you got more lift in the rear than bargained for. But you could also have a 5" lift that has sagged somewhat in the front.
And again, it's not a lean unless it's inconsistent side to side. For front to rear height changes where you want to lower the rear, you simply remove some leaves, or any blocks that are there, to change the height to where you want.

So whatcha running?

Paul
 

pennyduke

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74 Explorer, 3.5" lift, 1" BL, uncut with 35"s. Fiberglass full top, Stock bumpers, No winch, The Body is leaning to the drivers side about 1-1/4 inches in the rear. I just replaced all the rear spring and shackle bushings and still have the same amount of lean as I did before I started.
 

DirtDonk

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Spring and shackle bushings rarely account for any lean, but if they needed replacing, better to have done it no matter what.

So which direction relative to your previous measurements is it leaning? You said the rear was 11.25" between the axle and frame. Is it 11.25 plus the 1.25, or minus the 1.25?
A lean is a lean, but it might still help to know where you sit overall.

You've probably seen the discussions about the radius arms being torsion bars, which is why some lean (and specifically "Bronco Lean") can come from the radius arms and still look like it's leaning more in the rear. But in your Bronco's case, it's leaning that 1.25" equally to the side at both the front and back?
If it's not the springs, it could easily be the radius arms/C-bushings.

The way to tell if it's the springs is to swap them side to side (one pair at a time). If the lean follows the springs, it's a spring. If it does not, then it's something else in the frame, perhaps the c-bushings.
Lots of measurements are needed to make sure it's not a coil tower welded on different from the other, or a leaf spring hanger at a different height. Both of those are actually more common than we'd like to think, but most of them do not create a whole lot of visible lean. A little yes, but more often than not it's in the radius arm assembly.

You left the spring and shackle bolts loose until you got the vehicle's weight back on the ground? Sometimes torquing the bolts with it hanging in the air will not let the rear settle fully.
Not often maybe, and it likely happens with stock bushings more than polyurethane, but it doesn't hurt to use that method when installing them.

Did you notice your lean after the lift was installed? After C-bushings installed? Or had it since you bought the truck?

Paul
 

pennyduke

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So when I'm sitting on level ground, the entire drivers side is leaning 1"inch in the front and 1-1/4" in the rear measured from the ground to the bottom of the wheel well straight up aligned with the axles.

I did leave the spring and shackle bolts snug but not loose and took it for a short drive then tightened them after hitting a few small pot holes.

the Lean was there when I bought the truck. It didn't have a engine and transmission when I bought it so I really didn't notice.

When laying a 4 foot level across the rear bumper I have to raise the left side of the level about a inch to get level. This part seems weird to me because the bumper is attached to the frame.

"So which direction relative to your previous measurements is it leaning? You said the rear was 11.25" between the axle and frame. Is it 11.25 plus the 1.25, or minus the 1.25?"
A lean is a lean, but it might still help to know where you sit overall.

Above is what I measured to the bottom of the frame from the top of the axles. I'm not sure how those dimensions can be pretty even and the body is leaning to one side. I'm losing sleep trying to figure this out. Is there any other measurements I can take of should I swap the front springs and see what happens?
 

DirtDonk

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So when I'm sitting on level ground, the entire drivers side is leaning 1"inch in the front and 1-1/4" in the rear measured from the ground to the bottom of the wheel well straight up aligned with the axles.

But are the bottoms of the wheel wells perfectly consistent? Are they cut, or original sheet metal?

When laying a 4 foot level across the rear bumper I have to raise the left side of the level about a inch to get level. This part seems weird to me because the bumper is attached to the frame.

Yeah, but it's a 50 year old frame. And not only do frames bend, and tweak just from use and abuse and maybe even a hit or three, but they may not always have been perfect as delivered from the factory.
They were pretty good though, all things considered (and aside from the ugly welds!) but not always perfect.

Then there's your interpretation of when a bubble is level. Unless this is a digital readout level, it's not going to be as accurate as your tape measure under the frame and axle.

"So which direction relative to your previous measurements is it leaning? You said the rear was 11.25" between the axle and frame. Is it 11.25 plus the 1.25, or minus the 1.25?"
A lean is a lean, but it might still help to know where you sit overall.

Above is what I measured to the bottom of the frame from the top of the axles. I'm not sure how those dimensions can be pretty even and the body is leaning to one side.

Stop measuring the body for a moment and just measure the frame and axles. You're looking for suspension lean at the moment and I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying.
By that other question I asked I was wondering which side was leaning down and you did not say the lean was up, or down from your measurements.
You're now saying it's to the driver's side, but not where each side comes in on a tape measure.
So what I'm gathering now is that your frame and suspension are fairly level and your body is leaning? Nothing odd about that, and nothing to do with the suspension at all then.
If your body is leaning and your frame is not, then your body mounts are crooked, sagged, bent, or broken. Simple as that.

I'm losing sleep trying to figure this out. Is there any other measurements I can take of should I swap the front springs and see what happens?

Yes, please supply four discrete measurements. Front axle driver and passenger side, rear axle driver and passenger side.
Measure again between the top of the axle tubes to the bottom of the frame rails at all four corners, and let us know what those are. Ignore the body for the time being and lets just concentrate on the suspension.

Then for the body, don't take any measurements yet, but post up some pictures of the tailgate and the grille the full width across.
You said you have a new-ish 1" body lift, so all the cushions at least should be equal in height. If your body lines under the tailgate and grille are evenly spaced across compared to the frame, then we're back to the suspension.

Once we see all four corner's heights, we might see some clues.

Paul
 

pennyduke

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Ok, I will get it perfectly level and take new measurements. It's 9 degrees here in Virginia so it make take me a few days.

The drivers side quarter panel is new. The guy that just painted it said he had to do some work to it to get it right. The floor pans were replaced with metal and not floor pans from a vendor. The drivers door shuts perfect. Passenger side sags down just a hair. I'm thinking that the body is not square and is causing the lean to the drivers side. But I will check for the suspension lean first then move on to the body.
 

abn373

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FWIW, I had a similar issue. All the standard measuring places like axle to frame were even and correct and yet same issue with the level on the bumper being off.
Turns out the one rear end of the frame was way off, presumably from a crash at some point (it was tweaked out and up). I took it to a frame alignment shop and they tweaked it back and I had them leave the threaded rod they put between the to frame ends in place so I wouldn't have it move if I took the bumpers off.

It sits perfect now.
 

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pennyduke

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That's very helpful. Thanks for the info. I think my problem is going to be in the body but I will be checking everything including the frame and suspension. I never thought about the frame being bent in the rear. Thanks
 

pennyduke

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Here is a few pics of my lean. Just to give you all an idea of what it looks like.
 

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daron.pisciotta

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Sep 2, 2018
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OK, I have been discussing my front axle assembly fix with a 4 x 4 shop and they stated that by looking closer at the assembly, that the previous owner tried to fix ix and that they can't guarantee they can fix it perfectly because of that and they are afraid they may ruin my axle.

So i have been looking for a replacement, but again I am afraid I will end up in the same spot.

The 4X4 shop said they could rebuild one for me, but I wanted any other ideas for this fix. They would use all go the axles that I have and new ball joints. Etc etc

Thanks!
 
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