Another clutch fork question

[lilthom]

I put in a new AX15 with new clutch behind my 351. I kept the same LUK pressure plate and took a DA sander to the surfaces to clean them up. I also put in a new clutch fork and throw out bearing from WH because the clip on my old one was busted. Road tested it and could feel it slipping under a load. I took it out and checked everything and put it all back together. Now it is even worse. I discovered this. The clutch fork is hitting the opening in the bell housing not allowing it to come back to full engagement. I know I am going to have to pull it for the third time but what is causing this?

 

[Yeller]

Wish I had an answer…..

 

[nvrstuk]

Like Yeller... but, why IS the fork moving that far?

Do you still have the disc and plate boxes with part #'s?

Did you double check the part # with the application?

Sure you've done this if you've pulled this once and probably have to again...

 

[Yeller]

Only thing I can come up with is there is that 1 of 3 pairs of components are not compatible. Disc to the pressure plate, pressure plate to the throw out bearing or throw out bearing to the clutch fork.

The knows are (correct me if I'm wrong).
New disc
Original flywheel
Original pressure plate
New throw out bearing
New release arm.
Original bell housing.

I'm leaning towards incorrect throw out bearing or the new arm is not made correctly or made for a different bearing than original. The bearings are available with different lengths from release arm to plate finger face. Is it possible that you got a bearing for a flat diaphragm plate and you have a deep diaphragm plate? Just grasping at straws, there is a simple, although labor intensive, solution to this problem just not sure what it is.

 

[lilthom]

Public thanks to Yeller. He's always my go to guy.
The AX15 kit from Advanced Adapters came with the appropriate clutch for the transmission along with all the adapters.
The new throw out bearing and clutch fork came from WH. They only offer one option and they seemed to match what came out.
The LUK pressure plate was used on the previous NP435 set up.
This morning, just for grins, I hooked a ratchet strap to the fork and attempted to make it move towards the driver side hoping it would pop into the pivot point. I didn't go crazy with it but no luck.
After church and lunch I'm going to see if I can remove the four bolts that hold the transmission to the housing and just slide it back a bit. Maybe I can get some wiggle room to adjust that fork. My hope is that the shifters let me move it far enough.

 

[73azbronco]

So the fork is stuck in that position with no pedal rod connected, it wont jiggle? It should jiggle around a bit.

 

[lilthom]

It doesn't budge. I drove it around the block after installation and it functions but as I said, it can't fully engage like this.

 

[nvrstuk]

That's why I was saying you need to double check part #'s and application... Glad you got it fiigured out.

 

[lilthom]

I saw this in another post and it is exactly what I was seeing when I was trying to poke the shaft into the flywheel. The fork just seems to be shorter than the original. I focused on having he bearing centered while being fully engaged in the little clips on the back of the clutch arms because with the fork positioned so the clip is in the pivot bracket, the arms of the fork certainly can't be riding and pushing across the radius of the bearing. They would just be catching the edge. I know that sounds confusing but it makes sense to me. Now I just have to find a different source for a clutch fork than WH. My guess is that all the vendors get them from the same place.

 

[nvrstuk]

What a hassle but glad you have a pretty good idea what it is.

Call WH first thing in the am and ask them about it. They are super good with customer service!

 

[lilthom]

I tried loading two videos but couldn't. I was trying to show in the videos is that when the transmission is separated about 1/2-3/4", the fork feels right with a bit of wiggle and I can both see and feel that it is correctly in the clip. As I start to snug the transmission up it is already beginning to compress the pressure plate with no linkage connected. I don't have to pry the transmission apart. It is being pushed out by the pressure plate. This all has to come out so I can figure out why. Now I don't think the fork is the problem at all.
I will share the outcome when I have had time to complete this fun job, probably after Thanksgiving.
Thanks, again, for all the input.

 

[nvrstuk]

lilthom- videos can't be posted to the site. You could try posting up a YouTube video and a link or to some other independent site

 

[lilthom]

lilthom- videos can be posted to the site. You could try posting up a YouTube video and a link or to some other independent site

Call me crazy but I will not use anything tied to Google.

 

[lilthom]

After watching the Chiefs beat the Cowboys I went out to remove the transmission, etc. What I am convinced happened is that since the fork was too short, as the shaft went in it pulled the bearing towards the center actually pulling the clips off of the fork arms. As I pushed it in I think the clips ended up between the fork arms and the surface of the bearing. That's what was pushing the fork at such an angle. I think this awkward angle put stress on the bearing to the point that it is already trashed. There was grease from it slung around the inside of the housing.
Picture #1 shows how when the fork is seated properly and the bearing clips are slid on the arms everything is off centered.
Picture #3 shows how I can push the bearing off to one side already. It doesn't spin freely either.
So..... I am back to finding a different fork and getting a new bearing. I will be calling WH in the morning for their input.
I feel a little better that it wasn't totally my ignorance.

 

[lilthom]

I just realized that I grabbed a screen shot from another thread showing the bearing being off centered when installed. Mine looked exactly the same.

 

[mebco09]

After watching the Chiefs beat the Cowboys I went out to remove the transmission, etc. What I am convinced happened is that since the fork was too short, as the shaft went in it pulled the bearing towards the center actually pulling the clips off of the fork arms. As I pushed it in I think the clips ended up between the fork arms and the surface of the bearing. That's what was pushing the fork at such an angle. I think this awkward angle put stress on the bearing to the point that it is already trashed. There was grease from it slung around the inside of the housing.
Picture #1 shows how when the fork is seated properly and the bearing clips are slid on the arms everything is off centered.
Picture #3 shows how I can push the bearing off to one side already. It doesn't spin freely either.
So..... I am back to finding a different fork and getting a new bearing. I will be calling WH in the morning for their input.
I feel a little better that it wasn't totally my ignorance.

Hey Lilthom. That photo of the off-center throw out bearing is from my AX-15 install. I bought 3 aftermarket forks and all of them are stamped too short, by about 1/4". I bought a used one, and it solved the problem. Centered it right up.

 

[73azbronco]

My old brain recalls two different fork lengths and how they attach.

cannot remember which is which though, someone will soon. I know my 302 based clutch fork loos like yours with the bar as the fulcrum point.

This is the pic of the other style with clip instead of bar:

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Perform...DCUVfIV7ZMk9z059BOTIzET33cQH8ZZsaAolhEALw_wcB

 

[lilthom]

Hey Lilthom. That photo of the off-center throw out bearing is from my AX-15 install. I bought 3 aftermarket forks and all of them are stamped too short, by about 1/4". I bought a used one, and it solved the problem. Centered it right up.

That sounds like a good strategy. I will be in KC over the holiday and have a good source there for a used one. Thanks.

 

[nvrstuk]

Somebody should let WH know, they might have a used one laying around and could compare and maybe fix ya up. Worth a try. At least they'd want to know to alleviate this headache from reoccuring.

 

[lilthom]

WH responded today simply saying that theirs matches the stock fork. They did suggest I relocate the pivot point which makes sense. That is just drilling out the original rivets, drilling two new holes and a couple of nuts and bolts. I did discover that local auto parts stores list these clutch forks for $10 less and of course, no shipping.
I guess I will be relocating my pivot point.