Another clutch fork question

[mebco09]

I'm out of town right now, but I'll post a photo of why these repop forks don't work when I get home. Mine didn't come from WH though.

 

[lilthom]

I'm out of town right now, but I'll post a photo of why these repop forks don't work when I get home. Mine didn't come from WH though.

I can't address until I get back from out of town, stuffing myself at Thanksgiving so I'll wait for your info.

 

[WILDHORSES]

lilthom, sorry to hear you are having issues with this.

Here are some side by side comparisons. You can click to blow up the pic to get a big view. We have both stock versions clip style and wire spring style and the after market version. The after market fork is working for most installs. I'm going to mock one up, do some more checking and shoot some more pics.

I would make sure the throw out bearing slides freely. We have seen at least one bearing with incorrect IDs recently.

Jim

 

[WILDHORSES]

Don't know if these pics are helpful or not but I said I would mock these up. Both old and new are functioning in the mock up. Both look to me like they could be better fitting. The throw out bearing moves freely on the front bearing retainer.

I understand stabling the tranny into the bellhousing and getting all this to install correctly is a much more challenging situation.

Jim

 

[mebco09]

Here are a couple of observations and photos of mine when I ran into the same problem.

The first photo is the aftermarket fork with an aftermarket bearing in the bellhousing. You can see that the centerline of the bearing is off from the center of the transmission hole.

The second photo is the same bellhousing installed.

The third photo is the end conditions of both a stock fork and an aftermarket fork. The stock one, with the square end forms a solid pocket for the clip to bite into. The aftermarket one is sloped, and the TO bearing clips wouldn't hold unless you shove the bearing too far down the fork, causing the alignment issue shown in photo #1 & #2. You can see the marks where the clips would slide out as you stabbed the transmission in. Once the bottom of the retaining clips come off of the fork, the entire bearing can rotate freely around the transmission shaft, rather than the shaft spinning the bearing only while its mounting plate stays still.

I notice that Jim's TO bearing appears to be a different style than the one I used. My bearing has a square plate, Jims is square on one end and round on the other, PLUS- it appears that the one Jim is using has its spring clips moved slightly more to the center of the bearing "hole", which would allow the clips more bite onto the fork, while the bearing stays centered in the hole.

I don't think that moving the pivot point is possible. The tab on the bellhousing is supposed to sit in the indented portion of the fork as the fulcrum point. I suppose that you could drill the bellhousing and move the tab, but that seems like a lot of work to do while underneath your Bronco.

What I think we have is just a bad combo of aftermarket parts. Mine worked with my TO bearing and an original fork. Looks like Jims works with aftermarket fork and his style of TO bearing, and his TO bearing looks like it probably would work with a stock fork also (it would just shove farther down the fork.)

Hope this helps.
Matt

 

[lilthom]

thanks for all of the detail. That is exactly what I am dealing with. I have lead on a stock one that I will pursue and see if I can put this job behind me.
Wild Horses, I believe Mebco09 has identified why the ones you sell are just different enough to cause issues. In your first picture in Post #23 you can easily see how the ends are shorter and wider. There is hardly any edge there to keep the clips from moving side to side.

 

[lilthom]

while I am waiting for my stock clutch fork to arrive I searched and found my old throw out bearing. I wanted to compare it to the one I just ordered. It wasn't a stock one but was probably 15 years old. What do you think? The overall height is the same but there are differences in the thickness of the bearing itself. I am tempted to use the old one. It doesn't have that many miles on it and seems fine. The older one is on the left.

 

[mebco09]

I don't think I would use a used TOB with a new clutch etc. There's probably nothing wrong with it, but I'd hate to have an issue with it after a few months and have to do it all over again.

That said, things made 15 years ago might be better made than the garbage China parts available today.

How does the clip placement differ between the new one and the old one?

 

[nvrstuk]

Thinner brg would change the geometry for sure. Might be the ticket but I don't know the history on it.

I still believe from my first post it's an obvious parts incompatibility issue. Brg thickness, pivot point, fork geometry. One or combo of all making the difference for your problem. Hope you get it figured out soon. I remember 3 clutches in one year as I was "learning" about clutch surface compounds the hard way. And back then it was hours quicker to drop my trans/tcase combo than now.

 

[lilthom]

That 15 year period only represents about 5,000 miles at the most. The old one is stamped FM-MEX whereas the new one has no numbers or stamping at all which tells me China. You can see that the clips on the older one extend a bit further and are still solid. The new ones are shorter, flimsy and one of them can already be rotated. I am going to squirt some fresh grease in the older one and use it. That plus a "new" old fork and I will be back like it was. That was working fine.

 

[nvrstuk]

If it's greasable like you say, 5K miles is nothing. Clean, fresh (not dried out grease), no moisture damage from yrs of sitting... I'd use it again!