Death Wobble! Tie rod help...

[JK]

So I finished the 4x4x2 install, and I noticed a little shake in the steering on bumpy streets. I then took the rig to the shop to have a set of 33" BFG A/T's mounted/balanced and an alignment done. The adjusted the toe-in slightly, and said the camber is a little off on the driver front, but can't be adjusted(without shim), so I was off. It's is now exponentially more shaky, and now the shaking seems perpetual, as in before, it would correct itself after a second. Now, if I don't hold the wheel, it's grows and grows until it's pretty nasty. I have searched and read up about the normal causes. I have no idea how old or crappy most of the bushings are. I had the wife steer while I crawled around, and I didn't see any noticable slop. I did however notice this.

The tie rod seems extremely gapped. I wanted to just snug it down, but I'm fairly new to steering componentry and geometry. The Driver side has no more than a few threads through the top on the nut, and the passenger already has much more through. Keep in mind the steering is maxed to the passenger side. The driver has little to no gap at the ball joint. Is this a large issue, or completely normal? If so, could it cause the issues described? Forgive me if this is day 1 stuff!

 

[JK]

Talked to Kyle a bit. I guess this is not a good amount of play in a trac bar bushing? (Click the picture for video)

 

[Timmy390]

That gap should be there. You're missing the rubber boot that filled with grease. That tie rod has a bunch of grease/mud/sand/dirt crusted in and around it. Also water has been getting into it due to the missing rubber boot. Hard to say it's bad but it more than likely is due to the missing boot and the elements.

My understanding is you can adjust the camber one of two ways via shims or ball joint sleeves. NAPA sells the sleves in varying degrees to dial in the settings.

Bad steering can be casued by so many different things it's really hard to say what the issue might be. I chased bad steering for years and finally broke down and bought all new (steering box, adjustable drag link, tire rods (both), adjustable track bar, new track bar bushings and 7 degree C bushings) and my rig now drives and steers like a dream.

More info on your rig will help. lift, year, what you have done to solve this problem, parts added parts deleted etc.

Also noticed in the pic the C bushings is really pushed out on the inner side. Looks like an inch or just under. It realy shoudl only be pushed out 1/4 inch or less on both sides. Mine were pushed out like that too till this summer when I took the old ones off and cleand the rust scale then used lots of soapy water when putting it all bact together. I now have 1/4 or less of squeeze out.

Tim

 

[Timmy390]

Talked to Kyle a bit. I guess this is not a good amount of play in a trac bar bushing? (Click the picture for video)

Yeah, that bad boy shouldn't really move at all.........

Tim

 

[Pa PITT]

Well it's not anything normal that you need to live with..It can cause you wreck .. Ruining your day. I'd say from the looks of those tie rods ends. You can buy cheap rod ends and I would . Sorry I say don't waist your money on extra special ones. Most of us don't put that many mile on our Broncos a year so go cheap.
.. I'm also going to say add a steering stabilizer shock . Again just get a 30 or 40 dollar one. OTHERS will say this is not needed but it can't hurt to try. . When I worked for Chrysler they told us to put them on Jeeps & Ram 4x4's. For this cure.
... Now here's one from Old Man PaPitt .. I like to pinch the front toe in just a bit.
.. How I align my Bronco . I get 2 sections of conduit pipe ...one fits inside the other .. like 3/4 and 1/2 . Hack saw them at like 3ft long and maybe about 4 ft . Mark both your tire ''inside'' about 6 inches up at the back . Then mark both at same height at front ''inside'' .. Now expand the tubing to touch both of the marks on the back of the front tires. You can mark with a marks-A-lot if needed. Now move tube to the front side of the tires . The specs will say have it at about 1/4 inch tighter in the front. Sorry but Here's where I like your tires to be pinched in just about 1/2 in the front. I think this helps keep down the Death Wobble. It helped on one of mine.
...............
.. Also when your getting ready to do this poor boy alignment. Find a good piece of very flat concrete. Have your steering wheel straight ..Roll your Bronco forward by hand an DON'T touch your brakes. You want everything relaxed.
.. Also while on the flat concrete get a carpenter Square and put the long end against your tire. See if the top of your tire is out just about 1/4 more than the bottom. Those are your only items to check. Dana 44's you can get some bushing to twist. But that's a lot of work.

 

[JK]

That gap should be there. You're missing the rubber boot that filled with grease. That tie rod has a bunch of grease/mud/sand/dirt crusted in and around it. Also water has been getting into it due to the missing rubber boot. Hard to say it's bad but it more than likely is due to the missing boot and the elements.

My understanding is you can adjust the camber one of two ways via shims or ball joint sleeves. NAPA sells the sleves in varying degrees to dial in the settings.

Bad steering can be casued by so many different things it's really hard to say what the issue might be. I chased bad steering for years and finally broke down and bought all new (steering box, adjustable drag link, tire rods (both), adjustable track bar, new track bar bushings and 7 degree C bushings) and my rig now drives and steers like a dream.

More info on your rig will help. lift, year, what you have done to solve this problem, parts added parts deleted etc.

Also noticed in the pic the C bushings is really pushed out on the inner side. Looks like an inch or just under. It realy shoudl only be pushed out 1/4 inch or less on both sides. Mine were pushed out like that too till this summer when I took the old ones off and cleand the rust scale then used lots of soapy water when putting it all bact together. I now have 1/4 or less of squeeze out.

Tim

The rig is a '69 with 3ish inches of SL (Done by PO), 1 in BL, 33x12.50x15's.
I went from manual steering and brakes to hydroboost and 4x4x2 box. the box is new used rebuilt by Scrapman. Haven't done anything in replacing drag link/tie rods/trac bar/etc. yet. It handled ok before, just armstrong steering. Now it steers great, but got a little wobbly. The 33's added today amplified the problem, but they are freshly installed with a balance. It never gets violent, just irritating and I'm sure it will only get worse.

 

[TBS-POPS]

trac bar bushing moving like that is your major culprit causing death wobble. get it fixed first before you do anything else. do both ends!!

The larger you go in tire size, the more amplified steering problems become.

 

[70_Steve]

I had the wife steer while I crawled around, and I didn't see any noticable slop.

Talked to Kyle a bit. I guess this is not a good amount of play in a trac bar bushing? (Click the picture for video)

No offense, but I'd have to question your troubleshooting method, if you didn't notice the upper track bar bushing play when you had your wife working the steering wheel. That should be very obvious. Point being... if you missed that, what else did you miss?

Also, when replacing the upper track bar bushing, don't overlook the holes in the track bar bracket. They have a tendency to get worn and oversized. A common fix for this is to fab up some "washers" out of 3/16 or 1/4", with the proper sized hole. Then weld to the outside of the track bar bracket.

 

[addicted]

Heres a real clean way to fix a messed up bolt hole if you have one
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/FIXIT.html

 

[JK]

No offense taken. When I originally posted, all I had looked for play in was shaft, box, tierods, and drag link, as those were the only things I messed with. I got that video on troubleshooting round 2 after reading more about the "normal culprit", but honestly didnt know what level of slop is required to cause wobble, which is why I took a nice little video l and asked the pro's. Never ashamed to ask a dumb question that might save mine or someone elses life.

 

[ransil]

Did it do this before the 4x4x2 install??

 

[JK]

Its hard to tell. Before the PS, the box was so sloppy and darty, you had to really hold the wheel, never giving it an opportunity to wobble. Just got off the phone with Jeffs and I have a tierod, a bushing kit, and some defrost hoses on the way(did the heater motor upgrade last night when I didnt have the parts to fix the steering). They should be here Saturday, so we'll see what happens.

 

[70_Steve]

No offense taken.

Thank you for that!

It doesn't take much movement in the steering system to allow the Death Wobble. That wiggle test you did with your wife can find all sorts of bad things. Some of the more obsure things to check would be the welds and frame at the upper track bar mount, the steering box and how it bolts to the frame, the lower trackbar mount bolt, and even the ball joints in the knuckles.

Also, there doesn't even need to be anything loose to have the Death Wobble. Jim Creel, from Wild Horses, posted up not all that long ago, about his troubleshooting the same problem. He found a big difference by just rotating already balanced tires from front to back.

 

[JK]

Im gonna spend saturday replacing a few things. Hopefully it will be as simple as the bushings. Bright side, when the next guy searches for Death Wobble, he'll have a video with a little bushing movement and people say,"holy shit, that's bad." He won't have to ask! You're welcome next guy!

 

[Kdub]

Also, this could help%) haha

 

[garberz]

Also, this could help%) haha

Nice, I see you snapped a pic of my proprietary, triple steering stabilizer mounting system. What event did you see my Bronco at?;D

 

[JK]

Forgive me if this is an obvious question, but I gotta ask. Is the actual trac bar supposed to be perfectly stationary under load? Or is the major concern just that the bushings dont move. I had a bushing set and tierod overnighted from JBG(Patience not one of my strengths). I put them both in last night. First cause for concern, I pressed out the old bushing/sleeves, and the new rubber bushings popped right in. I didn't fight me at all, which I have read is the norm. Once installed, The trac bar still has some, be it very little, movement inside the upper mount. the bushing are stationary, but the bar end has 1/32ish of an inch clearance inside the mount, and while jiggling the steering seems to jiggle that 1/32". Is that normal, because given the way it's set up, I honestly see no way to make it completely stationary, as you cant tighten it down anymore, unless I need to get the upper mount bent in on the side, which then puts the cotter pin outside the castles without a stack of washers. Any ideas?